Differences between two tao tao scooters.
 

I'll start by saying hi, I'm new here. And sadly tao tao is the only thing around me that I can afford. I need it to get back and forth to a job so I can make money. Gotta have money to make money to get something better lol.

Anyways now for the question.

A local little dealer near me sells the standard base model tao tao 50cc which is about 575. And also the tao tao future champion VIP 50cc for 785.

I can afford either one. But I want to know if it's worth it to spring for the VIP. And what the differences are aside from the VIP looking nicer. I'm going on monday 3/4/2013 so I need to cram any information you guys have. ALSO A very important piece of information I'd like aside from looking at a title is there a way to make sure it's the 2013 model and not the 2012 model? :thanks: And I appreciate any help

There will be a manufacturers tag on the bike indicating the year. I don't know the main differences but I like the looks of the VIP better... Someone here will definitely know...

Thanks for the info scootwinn

As a vip owner,I'm biased but the vip is awesome

Sounds nice. If you see this again, what year and color is yours? When I get mine it is going to be orange either way. And I will walk out if they don't have orange still in stock. But I spoke with the guy over the phone and he said they have it in stock. I know that is a little picky. But 600-900 is a lot of money to me to not be happy with what I'm getting. And a can of spray paint wont cut it lol. I've tried it before with less than satisfactory results.

As an owner of the ATM, I can only say that the Pre-2012 VIPs where a piece of crap.
I see most of them in the repair shops across town.
More than the ATMS.
The atm's are fast, easy to maintain, and solid. My experience.

The VIPS are larger, but all TAO exhausts rust like hell!

If the stock model is the ATM50, get that one!
It's faster, it's lighter, it's just overall a better performing scoot IMHO (especially with BP Premium fuel).

Lol I didn't think this was going to be an easy decision. I have a vote for both now. So now I am kind of torn between the two. As of for the exhaust I wonder if the auto parts store may sell a high heat resistant spray to cover the muffler. During the winter time they use sand on the roads here, So I don't have to worry about salt. But we get a good amount of rain so that is something I will definitely have to look into. At first I was thinking why would the ATM be faster and more reliable than the VIP which costs more. But you make a point with it being lighter it has less to haul. But I still wonder if it's enough to make a difference. But I'm still keeping my eyes open for new posts on this thread to see if anyone wants to chime in their experience. And thanks to those that have given their opinion so far.

The vip is bigger than the atm if your tall, choose the vip. Im 6'4 and my stepson has a xyqt50 looks just like an atm, its too small for me, its not comfortable.

Well I am 5'7 and 5'8 with my boots on. Lol gotta include every inch I can. I weigh about 198. Is the xyqt50 the same as the ATM? What likes/dislikes do you have about both the xyqt50 and VIP

Dont buy the atm they are junk imo prodigit is the only person i ever hear talk good about them, i have bought two of them both blue, straight junk to any other scooter i have owned which is 9 scooters counting the two atm, and like mention earlier they are bigger and better suited for a adult to ride plus the come with pegs for a second rider

There are plenty of ATM lovers on the forum. Also plenty of ATM's and VIPs on South Beach. Yet the only ones I see in the garages are the VIPs. Seemingly they just ramble apart.
As far as size, the ATM is very small, however, I'm, 6'3" and if I sit on the passenger's seat I still have about 1 ft of leg/knee space in front of me.
I'm 6'3" and sit most comfortable on the place between driver's and the passenger's seat.
It's pretty comfy for me!

The ATM is a one person rider. I can ride with my wife, but my legs would have to be open in order to be able to sit on the drivers seat.
You really don't want to haul 2 people on a 50cc anyway. Way too slow! But should you want to, the ATM does not have passenger pegs, but it has incavings in the body, where the passenger can put his/her feet; at the edge of the floorboard.



As far as speed goes, the ATM beats the competition right out of the water!
With good fuel, and pumped tires, even at 200+LBS you can reach 40-45MPH (I'm 170LBS on a good day 160BS, and can go 48-53MPH tops).
Most VIPs aren't that fast.

Then again, perhaps I'm lucky and got the only good ATM out there.
However I spoke to another user who has an ATM, and he too had no issues with it!
From the factory, all bolts sealed with a sealing agent like locktite.
All I had to do was to mount the hose clips on the correct spots (under the seat there are few hoses. The clips are on the hoses, but not on the right spot, so I moved them; a 5 - 10 minute job).
Also, if you're into perfection, the reflectors on mine where installed upside down (the imprinted text was upside down), though in normal circumstances you won't even notice that, since the reflectors are round.

Sure wish I could join in. We sell very few 50's... has something to do with all the hills here in Western PA. We have tried the Tao-Tao atv's and were less than impressed. There's a new dealer here in town just down the road. He's thrown his lot in with Tao Tao... so we're gonna take a wait and see attitude. However, on a good note, we've picked up some of his customers for service from the quads he sold at Christmas. Hopefully he's even worse at fixing scooters than he is at fixing atv's.

I must say ride them yourself and then decide. No ones opinion matters but yours because ultimately you are the one who will have to look at the thing daily for as long as the bike lasts. The drive train on the two bikes is identical both are a dice roll for quality. Get the one that is comfortable and has the right amount of storage etc.

[QUOTE=prodigit;517674]There are plenty of ATM lovers on the forum. Also plenty of ATM's and VIPs on South Beach. Yet the only ones I see in the garages are the VIPs. Seemingly they just ramble apart.
As far as size, the ATM is very small, however, I'm, 6'3" and if I sit on the passenger's seat I still have about 1 ft of leg/knee space in front of me.
I'm 6'3" and sit most comfortable on the place between driver's and the passenger's seat.
It's pretty comfy for me!

The ATM is a one person rider. I can ride with my wife, but my legs would have to be open in order to be able to sit on the drivers seat.
You really don't want to haul 2 people on a 50cc anyway. Way too slow! But should you want to, the ATM does not have passenger pegs, but it has incavings in the body, where the passenger can put his/her feet; at the edge of the floorboard.



As far as speed goes, the ATM beats the competition right out of the water!
With good fuel, and pumped tires, even at 200+LBS you can reach 40-45MPH (I'm 170LBS on a good day 160BS, and can go 48-53MPH tops).
Most VIPs aren't that fast.

Then again, perhaps I'm lucky and got the only good ATM out there.
However I spoke to another user who has an ATM, and he too had no issues with it!
From the factory, all bolts sealed with a sealing agent like locktite.
All I had to do was to mount the hose clips on the correct spots (under the seat there are few hoses. The clips are on the hoses, but not on the right spot, so I moved them; a 5 - 10 minute job).
Also, if you're into perfection, the reflectors on mine where installed upside down (the imprinted text was upside down), though in normal circumstances you won't even notice that, since the reflectors are round.[/QUOTE
I could be wrong but i thought you had a secret 63 didnt you post a picture with 6b on the case, if not you have the fastest stock 50cc ever shoot that beats hanks 3000+ sr50 top speed and hangs with my 70cc 2t cpi with countless dollars invested in aftermarket parts, but i have had both body styles the handsome boy wasnt taotao

Ok, I don't know where to really start at responding lol. Leave for a little bit come back and a lot of new stuff. So it looks like what I'm hearing is they are the same except for the frame/size and pegs with some extra storage on the VIP? 48mph? that does seem a little high. My 2005 yamaha zuma that I used to have would top out around 40-45 going down a little slope lol. I don't think they are going to let me test drive them though at least I wasn't allowed to test drive the zuma before purchasing it. I'll be keeping my eye on this thread as I'm still kind of divided. Of course my main concern between the two is reliability on what I can afford. But as scootwinn said they are basically the same when it comes to the motor.

hopefully the op budgets in repair costs for the premature failures..

Yes I did take into account things like a $25 belt needing replaced. And a $60 carb etc. Which in the long run allows me to pay for things here and there instead of trying to come up with an extra $1000-2000 all at once for a name brand scooter.

i would for sure change the carb but i havnt had a issue with a stock belt yet i would ride it tell it dyes (belt) and have a back up for when it does, even know most scoots Chinese 4t have gy6 based motor there are different grades in them, i have seen some that the metals are so soft and and very under powered and others that are better quality with better power and speed, the worse one i have ever seen was peace renegade 805 form riderswholesale with the very close two atms from provenpowersports but not the dealer fualt just saying where they were bought from

@Teddy: I've never claimed to have a secret 63. I've never been able to verify that myself. There is a chance that I have a larger than 49cc displacement, but don't know if it's 63cc. From the manual I have a 55,7cc. On paper it's a 49cc.

@TDSJ: Yes, same motor, perhaps same CVT too. Though many users who bought their AMT50's with build after 09/2012 have said to easily reach speeds over 42, and I've found 3 other people who's speedometer indicated speeds of greater than 48MPH (the speedometer below the blinker light on the dash).
However, going from 35MPH to 40 takes time, and even longer to go to 45MPH.
And only on a good day will you be able to get to 50+ MPH (like little wind in back).

I've noted that the ATM, when it warms up, it gets faster to those speeds. I've also noted, that it warms up faster with acceleration to top speed, engine brake to standstill, and repeat that process for a few times. On my rides, I often was riding on a 40-45MPH road top speed, and by the time I reached top speed, had to (engine brake) to the next red light. Do that 3 or 4 times, and the ATM accelerates much faster, and can get to 50+MPH within 1 minute.
I say 53MPH, but it's rather ~52 or 51MPH GPS verified.
I got these results using 10W40 oil, BP Premium gasoline (by which I swear it adds at least 10%,if not 20% of performance compared to other gasolines out there), and reduced my spark plug gap to 0.10"(0.254mm) (from stock 0.25" (0.635mm) spacing).
I do have a windshield installed, but I don't claim any speed gains with it.

I personally did not needed to change anything on my ATM50. The spark plug shows no signs of running lean or rich, does wear out a bit every 1000 miles, but it's easy to adjust the gapping, the belt is as good as new after +2k miles, probably can run 6 or 8k miles with the stock belt. Hoses are still good after 6+ months in the elements (hot Florida sun and rain).

Can't speak for VIP, but on the ATM it's entirely unnecessary to replace carb or belt (at least on mine).

A lot of information to take in again. @teddy554 is there a specific carb you would recommend otherwise I might just wing it and pick what ever I find online at a reputable chinese parts outlet. @prodigit i did some searching on youtube for the atm50 and noticed a few that seemed to get above 45. there was one guy on there though that had a windshield and drilled holes in his exaust and added what he called a 95 jet for the carb. I know what jets are but I dont remember if he said what size was in it orig. I'm wondering if since the VIP is slower if it would be less strain on the engine and cause it to last longer? I think my cousin has an atm50 but i haven't been over to his place in a while. I don't know how he has ridden it but he keeps it in a really nice shed that is sealed all around. it takes him a good 10-15 minutes to get it started during colder weather and then about another 10 minutes of letting it warm up. if he doesn't let it warm up it will die when he throttles it. I know this can happen with any cheaper scooter. Aside from things mentioned before I'm just also trying to figure out if they both have the same engine why the vip cost substantially more. I would hope it wasn't just from looks lol.

The VIP is slower because its heavier.
You get the same results with an ATM by not opening the throttle all the way. In fact, if anything, the ATM will last longer when ridden in exactly the same circumstances and environment, because of it's lighter weight.

Tell your cousin to up the idle screw a bit. Not a problem of the bike, just a bad setup that's the same on any chinese scoot.

1- The atm has steel wheels instead of alloy wheels,
2- It has 10in tires, instead of 12
3- It's much simpler in build and much smaller, meaning less material is used to build it.
4- It has a single incandescent headlight, instead of a twin halogen bulb..
5- Steel instead of aluminum exhaust
And the list goes on...

Correction on the above:
Seemingly they have a similar model in VIP as the ATM. So it really depends on what kind of VIP you're talking about.

Prodgit\Sorry that i was wrong on the 63 couldn't remember if it was you or not

Any carb with access to the inside and a air/fuel screw will be better to tune, Im a name brand kind of person so i would suggest a naraku or hoca brand carb but any carb will do over the stock, you mention a youtube video if he was use any size jet in the 90 range it has a bbk on and isnt a stock 50 or he is just jetted very rich, jet will control the amount of fuel flow and your cusin need a valve adjustment also

Got one
 

Ok guys and gals? I just got back and I went with the VIP model. I wanted the extra storage.

Problems so far...
All they had apparently was the 2012 model.
Even after driving it about 15 miles to get it back it still has trouble staying running when coming to a stop (when the brake is applied) If I start it up and just let it run it seems to do fine until I hit the brake causing the back tire to stop. Then it bogs down and if not revved up lightly it dies out.

The guy at the shop said this wont be a problem during warmer weather. Who knows? I don't. It's 42F right now. Needless to say I'M COLD from the drive home.

Top speed on flat was 35mph
top speed going down hill was 42ish
Going up a hill was 20mph
I fought the wind basically the whole way back.

So my ideas are
new spark plug
better oil (any recommendations?)
premium gas
2 cap fulls of seafoam (i used this with my zuma and it outran all other stock zumas)
And if need be a new carb.
oh and it needs a bath!

The throttle does leave a little to be desired as it seems to have 2 speeds at times lol. either full or very little. But not all the time.

It is a little scratched up here and there but orange is what I wanted and seeing as it was the last one that they had to go pick up from another store while I waited I was making sure I got it.

Not sure if it will be above or below my text but I'm including a picture of it.

Oh and last but not least I added a vibration remote controlled alarm to it for anyone around here with sticky fingers. 120db should deter them better than nothing :lmao:

Nice good job

For your idle you will need to adjust it. there should be an access hole under the seat or the whole bucket may come out. Set the bike on the mainstand and start it up after the bike is HOT I mean run for 15 to 20 minutes. Ok with the bike hot check to see if the rear wheel is spinning if it is find the thumb screw on the right side of the carb and turn it left (? whichever way make the idle speed less?) if it is no spinning your bike is dying because the idle speed is too low turn that screw in until the bike idles with out throttle input. Hope that helps ask if you need more help.

Hey scootwinn. The tire does already spin while it idles. So I do not think I need to adjust it, correct? And thanks for the quick reply

Nice scoot, Yeah the idle does need to be adjusted but he says his back wheel is turning while at ideal so it already set to high, the air fuel screw need to be adjusted first but most of the taotao comes with a cap on it it needs to be pop off so you can adjust it, then you can properly set your idle were it wont stall or spin the back wheel, adjusting any slack in the throttle cable at the carb will help with throttle play

Hey teddy. Thanks for clarifying that. I've adjusted the air and fuel screws on other mopeds. But I've never adjusted slack in a cable for the carb. How do I go about that?

Never mind lol forgot youtube is my friend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEB7QJNE_EM He shows the handle being adjusted and mentions it can be adjusted at the carb too but I'm not sure how to do it. I'm guessing it works on the same principle

i like to use the adjustment on the carb where the cable comes out of the protective sleeve there are to 12mm nuts there,unscrew them, then adjust accordingly a lot of times the one by the throttle isn't enough but being yours is new with no stretch it will be fine, in the video around 28 seconds is the part i like to adjust http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJfo5CEfLyw

Thanks, You were right though I didn't need it. And upon going out side to see how loose the throttle was (which it was a lot) I adjusted it by the handle. And it's nice and tight now with no play. I also adjusted the idle and after a few choice words of it being very picky I got it to idle with the tire spinning at a decent rate but to where it didn't create force when on the ground. I got it to where it stops dying when I hit the brake. I figure I may have to adjust it again once I put better gas and a better spark plug in. I've always liked ngk but now I can't remember what size I have to put in there. All I know is the manual says it needs a gap of 0.6mm-0.7mm

get spark plug part number 7544 at advanced auto parts no need to gap it, its an irridium

Tire should not spin at all when idling sorry the other post wasn't clear... I should have said turn the idle down until the wheel stops spinning. Idle speed is around 1600 rpm and clutch engagement above 2000 rpm...

Sorry for the typos and ambiguity...

in-case you dont wont to buy a 9 dollar plug ngk cr7has are 2.50 and the plug millscmention is also known has ngk cr7hix

Thanks guys, I have the scooter wrapped up in a tarp right now for the night. I'll go back out in the morning and let it warm up and see what the rpm it idles at. Glad it has a gauge for that or I wouldn't have an idea of how to test it lol. And I may just get the cr7hix aka the 7544 if that is the best recommended one. I was going to change the oil in the scooter to synthetic but I read on another post somewhere that using synthetic to early in the bikes life may cause it not to set correctly. So I'll wait until 1000km before doing it. And in the mean time just use regular oil. Any choice on oils?

I use 10w 40 castrol non synthetic all year around, unless its a new top end then i use 15w 40 rotella t to break in unless its under 40 degrees

I like the castrol 10 40 too all year round... Motorcycle formula of course available at any auto zone. Synthetic is probably a waste of money if you are changing every 1000 miles...

Thanks I appreciate the suggestions. As soon as it's time to change the oil the first time I will use the 10 40 castrol since it got 2 thumbs up right away.

Try to set the spark plug gap to 0.3mm; 0.3 or 0.4 (stock, from the factory they come at 0.635mm). On my ATM it works best at just over 0.254mm.

Good job on the idle adjustment!
You'll notice, that now, the idle is set correctly, but especially if it's set from the handle, and not the carb, that the idle will differ with temperature.
You'll have to adjust on the carb too.
You'll notice that now it might run well, but on a 50 mile trip on a hot day, your scoot might be idling at 2k RPM, and wants to go forward on a red light.
That's bad, so it needs to be re-adjusted after the cold days pass.

As for oil, depends on your temperature.
At below 60 degrees, 10W30, or 10W40 will work just fine.
below 80 degrees, 10W40 or 15W40 work fine.
above 80 degrees, 15W40 or 15W50.

Unlike many people's reviews, the only reason why to get dino oil in the breakin, is if the dino oil is cheaper. Any other reason is not valid. Mobil actually recommends it's synthetic oil even for breakin!
I personally did my ATM50 with synthetic, and had fabulous results, better than most other people!
If synthetic or semi-synthetic oil is the same price, get synthetic (because 90% of synthetic oil you'll find in the stores is actually dino oil, with synthetic stabilizers in, not actual 100% synthetic oil, unless it's like 2-3x the price).
Also at the breakin you'll be throwing away the oil WAY before it becomes bad.
You throw it away because it has particles in it (metal flakes, carbon,....).
But your oil will only be worn for less than 5-10%.

Anyway, Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, all good brands.
There are few 100% synthetic oils out there, but IMHO they're a waste to use on a chinese scoot; because a tiny engine is just not handling super good oil very well like a large engine (a large engine could do way longer with fully synthetic oil than a scooter. On a scooter, regardless of oil life and condition, it still needs to be changed every 1000km's).

Dont gap the irridium plug you'll most likely break the electrode, leave it be no need to gap the irridium plug

+1 on that, 9 buck down the drain there