Truth about gy6 150cc scooters
 

Okay some of the things people say about 150cc gy6 bikes are ri-DONK-ulous! Time to set the record straight!

1) Value

A 150cc gy6 bike sells for between 600 and 1700 NEW. Therefore, your bike with 3k miles on it and no mods is NOT worth 1200.

But what about that bike you spent 1000 to hook up with every mod you can think of? Well that bike is worth LESS than stock. Sorry, but as soon as you start modding a vehicle (any vehicle) it LOOSES value. Yes it would be nice to see a huge return on your project, but that's just not the case. Mods depreciate the value. That said; mods can make your bike better, just less valuable.

2) Speed

You gy6 bike with 13" wheels will do 55mph stock AFTER break in. Yes I know the speedo says 140kmph, but they are inaccurate and USUALLY IN KMPH. To break it down 100kmph= about 60mph.

You cannot gauge your speed using a stock speedo. Use a GPS. And not a phone, USE A GPS UNIT. I have checked my own bike (which is very modded) with a Garmin and a Tom-Tom and have found it goes about 67mph MAXIMUM on flats. The highest speed I have attained is 83mph ON A LARGE STEEP DOWNHILL. Do not determine your top speed on a DOWNHILL, that is NOT your true top speed. Your true top speed is WHAT YOUR BIKE DOES ACCORDING TO A GPS ON A FLAT SURFACE.

3) Mileage

Simply put, varies greatly depending on roads, weather and hills. A modded 150cc should get about 60mpg on varied terrain, 70-75 mpg on FLATS ONLY. Note the more carb mods and CVT mods you do, usually the less MPG.

4) Reliability

I have been around bikes my entire life. I have been riding all manner of bike since I was 4. And I will say right now, that a Roketa (which is pretty low-end as far as gy6 bikes go) is just as durable and reliable as any Honda/Tomos/Yamaha/Burgman I have ever ridden. The "good" bike break just as much, and cost more to fix. Yes the initial stock parts on a low-end gy6 are pretty cheapo, but the replacements are pretty damned good and super cheap (a KOSO moly-coated variator only costs 70 bucks). Yes my stock carb was a POS, but the replacement I bought for 40 bucks and changed out the jets for another 9 dollars is a great carb, and is easily the same (if not better) quality than the one on my Kymco.

The biggest quality issue on these bikes is the rubber parts. So rather than mess around, simply change all your hoses with Tygon. This should only cost about 20 bucks TOTAL. And if you have some no-name tires, get some decent tires like Duro, Kenda, Pirrelli or Michelin.

As an avid scooter rider ( I own 7 currently) I cannot say a gy6 is automatically garbage. Yes they are not Aprillas or even Kymcos, but with a few cheap part swaps they get pretty darned close.

Just like any machine,you get out what you put in. Gy6 bikes are practically free compared to "good" bikes, and even with all mods done, a great gy6 can be made for LESS THAN HALF what a "good" bike costs.

And lastly if you are expecting a a repair free scooter, then you might as well sit around and wait fpr Santa Clause to ride up on a unicorn and take you to Fairy Land where no scooter ever breaks down. Scooters will break, Vespa or gy6, because they are machines, and machines break with use, period.

Do you even know what you think? I certainly have no idea. You say they are just as reliable as "real" bikes (whatever "real" means) and then you say they aren't equal. Comparing stock to stock Chinese are not equal even you said in the post you have to replace a bunch of stuff. Whatever the case you seem happy? So if you like the bikes fine but don't tell me that Honda's have the same issues as the generic Chinese scoot I spent too much time in an actual motorcycle shop to even think its true for a second. No matter what you do to your Chinese scoot you will never be able to hold it WFO for a 600-1000 mile trip I have done than on many machines and have never been stranded once...

Chinese scoots have their place but they are not the same...

I think the OP means that Chinese GY6 are comparable to the higher-end machines AFTER the upgrades, which still comes out cheaper.

Maybe this is a tangent, but what is it about the GY6 clones that makes them less powerful than other brands of the same displacement? I've noticed a lot of the Chinese 150cc put out right around 8-9 HP, while carbed Kymcos and Genuines pump out closer to 11-13 HP... roughly 40% more juice. Is it simply the age of the design (being based off of 30 year old tech), or is it the inferior quality stock parts? Do these upgrades noticeably close the performance gap?

~SM

Blueboy, you are certianly entitled to your opnion. Thanks for sharing!

China scooters are no way as good as a Honda or an Italian scooter . Yes replacing the fuel and vacuum hoses is a great idea along with the shipping engine oil and gear lube with any brand name automotive oil and gear lube . Many will run a tad better with a larger main jet since EPA has then lean .

My Echarm has a LC version of the GY6 ( parts do not interchange ) with 17k miles on it as of today . I have only changed the oil and adjusted the valves at 2,200 miles and it still runs strong

Yes the upgrades do indeed close the gap. Most gy6 bikes have cheap components and are based on a 30 year old Honda design. With proper, inexpensive, easy to do mods, a gy6 will easily produce 12 to 14 hp.

I would like to see undeniable proof of that

Hi Rob
Unless you throw the scoot on a dyno that would be hard to prove but it is a realistic goal
More ccs will equal more power so it all depends on how large of a displacement upgrade you do
With a 63 mm bore and a 61 mm stroke your 150cc becomes 190.15cc
That should easily put out over 12 bhp
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours Hank

Hank, I'm with you but, for a reliable daily ride in order to do that you need the kit, about $60 (cheap from ebay a quality kit is quite a bit more right?) then you need to have the cases bored right? How much is that? $50? more? To really be sure about that don't you want a new crank?? Any way a full rebuild of the engine is not "easy" in most people's minds, like he says. Yes with serious rebuild and replacement of everything but the cases you can make 12 hp, but he said "With proper, inexpensive, easy to do mods" Easy to do mods for me are performance pipes, air filters, roller weights, etc. Not total rebuilds. I can rebuild an engine but it is not easy. It takes a high level of competency and careful planning preparation and deliberate methods to get it right. You will take up a good 10 hrs at least. I'm not saying a GY6 can't make that power just that it isn't easy like he said. To do what you said and do it right with quality parts it's really going to cost around $500 isn't it?? You can get a used Honda Elite 200 for around $1500 and it will make reliable 12ish hp for you for the rest of your life... Not trying to bust anyone's chops really I just know what kind of power your starting with and a pipe and air filter isn't going to give you a horse power increase in excess of 50%. Once again Chinese rides are great scoots for 40-50 mph around town but no matter what you do I don't think you will ever finish a Scooter Cannonball or tour reliably...

Hi Rob
You are quite correct my friend, whats easy for me and others with the proper skills and machining equipment is not considered easy to most
Ive been working on motorbikes for over 40 years and have a decent home machine shop, lathe, drill press, mill etc so for me a rebuild is easy and quite enjoyable
I do apologize
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours Hank

I enjoy it too Hank I just built my Vespa back to stock (circlip on the wrist pin trashed the other top end when it stopped being happy in or near its groove) and it isn't hard for me but you do have to pay attention. I mainly was concerned that people would be thinking they could do "easy" stuff and suddenly turn their 7-9 hp engine into a real screamer. It isn't as simple as that, though I do admire his optimism.

Great write up. What else could I replace? I want to make it as reliable as possible. My only ride is my 150cc gy6 taotao vip powermac scooter. I've changed spark plugs, new forks, and trying to decide where I spend $200 on next. I want to make it as reliable as possible.

Also what are the parts that wear the fastest? Like belts or something? What could I spend $80 on and keep on hand for the day when my scooter breaks and I can't afford to wait two weeks for a part to come?

The part about phone GPS vs. a standalone GPS unit isn't valid though unless you had a really really cheep phone. The GPS unit inside an iPhone is actually higher quality and more expensive chip than the one in my $500 GPS travel unit. Apple quality is really good. I got 73 miles per hour on my gy6 and it has no mods that i know of which i though was pretty unusual and scary. I had a car follow me and verified with multiple devices. I bought it used, maybe the last owner did some mods or something?

If you break down the parts in an expensive brand name scooter, and a generic gy6 scooter the difference in material and parts is about $150. Honda isn't good because it cost more. Honda could easily sell those scooter for for $750, but they choose to keep high profit margin and use it to put quality back in. As chinese scooter companies get better the only distinction there will be between chinese scooter and Honda scooter is a better engineer team. All the parts come from China. The Chinese factories making them are getting better quality control everywhere, and will be able to do it for nearly the same price.

The people who make the parts for Honda and Tao scooter company are both being paid $1.50 in china for the most part.

Hi
:no:
Its much more then that
For one the quality of the metal used in the engines is much higher quality in top brand companies like honda yamaha aprillia vespa etc, most Chinese products use lower quality pot metal
Some like Sym use ceramic coatings for their cylinders, 4 valve heads etc
http://alliancepowersports.com/about/
My aprilia sr is another that has a higher quality and technology then your typical chinese scoot
http://www.motorscooter.com.au/html/...r50/ditech.htm
I love all brands and makes, in fact i own and ride Chinese scoots but i do see the big difference between big name brands and the generic Chinese scoots
There is really no comparison
You DO get what you pay for
Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

My bike is quite the "screamer" now. It has no internal mods, just a great carb, and CVT. Stock, at 1300 miles, it went 50mph GPS verified. Now it hits 65mph GPS.

my buddy's 1p57 with BBK can do 70+, but he also has a 30mm flatslide carb.

We both are running KOSO variators with 12g sliders. We are both using 'performance' clutches, mine has red springs and his has blue.

So yes, much much performance can be produced without a BBK, but a BBK give you one hell of a kick.

I do admit, working on these bikes is easy to me. It may not be easy to others. I've been an automotive technician since 1997, and I will say the gy6 is super-easy compared to even a primitive car engine (like a Chevy small block) . They do take a bit of wrenching skill, but not anymore than than your typical lawnmower, and not anymore than any other type of scooter.

That said, I work on my gy6 much less than I do my Honda c-90, but that could simply be because the C-90 is growing old.

OK, now I'm sooo confused on where this is headed.
I read the first post and got confused.

All I know is my girlfriend has a 150 gys wildfire helix clone
it has 5000 miles on it, and all I've done is change the oil regularly

I also have a 1100 shadow Sabre, and a Goldwing, and a wrecked (now repaired) magna V45.

So, I missed the point

there fun to customize, i know this guy with these super cool exhausts.....lol

i agree with the original poster, gy6 are way better than 5 yrs ago...

I've heard it said that these engines are made of pot metal, now I would like for someone to prove it.

Here's one for you!
 

My buddy,Ackworthpatrick on the Auto Moto forum has 40,000 miles on his Auto Moto trike! It's a gy6 150ZK that its out 9 hp mostly standard the only mods,performance orange CDI,Coil and wire, NGK plugs. And ,it's still going strong commuting every day. In fact he's considering doing the upcoming Cannonball Run.
There aren't many gy6 engines achieving that kind of milage in the USA, a few top that in Japan and China.


Cannon Ball Test Run this weekend =-)
So I did my first mock cannon ball test run yesterday, left at 8am and rode 263 miles in total returning home at 10pm. It was an awesome day and I rode through several small towns in GA, TN and AL. I made this loop without ever being more than 90 miles from home at the max since it was essentially a big circle. I had 0 trouble with the bike and rode at 50 on roads like the 30 minutes I uploaded for more than 50 miles at a time. Bike averaged 63.4mpg. Never used any oil and seemed to handle the abuse well.

One thing I noticed is after an hour of steady 50mph I'd get a pop in the exhaust as I slowed to a stop but otherwise it was just perfect. I was quite pleased honestly and it exceeded my expectations in every way. My arse however is sore LOL!!!!! I took lots of video and can upload more if anyone cares to see it, but it was basically more of this same thing. This run gives me alot more confidence in the idea that this bike can handle it.

Patrick
2010 Automoto w/ 39,000 miles
2008 Suzuki Burgman 400 w/ 8200 miles
http://www.everythingautomoto.com/

This thread inspired my new signature :cheers:

I've changed spark plugs, new forks,
QUOTE]
How are those forks working out for you? I have the Evo, I'm 220 pounds, the Evo is heavier than your P max, and the thing rides like a Half Track! Pretty brutal on San Antonio roads. We don't spend as much on resurfacing our roads because it's all going to border security. Because of the border security we have less people willing to resurface roads. Get it?:taunt:

I think the OP is meaning he can buy a Chinese scoot and modify it to be close to a big 4 or Italian for half the price of the later. The other guys are saying no way! I agree with both parties. My old XR80 was BULLETPROOF! My moms mid 80's Elite was BULLETPROOF. But now I'm tinkering with my Chinese scooter to make it reliable. I'm too new to know how this Tao Tao will last, but I think I'm getting it there. But I do know I've always ridden Jap sport bikes and they're built well. Very well. I also know that when I'm done with my second house and commuting 22 miles one way to work in back country with limited cell service I'll be on a Honda (or other big 4). But my Tao Tao is perfect for my one way 10 ish a mile per day commute now, in the city, with cell service which I just needed 2 days ago, and huge cracks in the road that are ruining everything.

["Upgraded gy6 are the same as vespa or honda" ]
I own a chinagirl, and I own Honda, and when you take their clothes off, and see them naked side by side, you may wish to rethink your sig.
Just my $.02

i DO NOT wish to rethink my sig, i stand by it 100%...if you have read my sig CORRECTLY it says "upgraded" so if you put them naked side to side with a upgraded gy6, its a different story plus there are more gy6 in the streets than brand name scoots in the us...

Hi
Got to say i agrere with you 100 %
I own and ride all makes and brands and upgrade all my chinese scoots to their max
But even with all the upgrades in the world they dont come close to the quality of my aprilia
You do get what you pay for when you buy a top brand
Its like comparting a ferrari or other high end car with a basic domestic car
Now dont get me wrong i love all my motorbikes its just i do know and accept the differences in quality between them
Take care and ride safely my friend
Yours Hank

sounds like a bias answer, you cant compare a ferrari to a scoot...lol

Hi
:taunt::lmao:
http://vespalexington.com/2009/08/fe...a-piaggio-mp3/

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/bike...made-a-scooter
Take care and ride safely my friend
Yours Hank

im hard to convince, still not convinced :taunt:

Hi
:no::doh:
Try owning and riding a high end scoot first and see if you still think the same once you compare them over time
Take care and ride safely my friend
Yours Hank

Hank, he's got his mind made up. I personally disagree with Frank, but I thought his quote was hilarious, so I changed my signature too. :)

Hi
I surely hope not
I shall leave with these words of wisdom from Edna Ferber
"A closed mind is a dying mind"
Take care and ride safely dear friend
Yours Hank

im far from a closed mind, im a design major

You're a design major. Take it from an aerospace engineer. A 150cc GY6 simply will not make 12-14 hp. My Sym Wolf is 150cc and has 14.69 hp and redlines at 9500 rpm. In order to make the GY6 150cc to output similar power without going BBK you'd need to do some pretty serious mods, essentially turn it into the higher compression higher revving engine that my SYM has. But you do those power mods and your engine life will go down the tubes. Most people will be thrilled to get more than 15,000 miles out of their bbk'd Chinese GY6's that do put out 12 hp and they still don't have the higher redline and 14 hp of my SYM 150cc.

It has been done, like the new "Lambrettas" with the 4 valve heads, but those Lambretta Uno 150's have only about 13 hp and like the Genuine's are made to a higher spec. They're not cheap Chinese GY6's but Taiwanese made upgraded GY6's and of course they command higher prices for their higher quality.

And unless you improve the cheap Chinese metallurgy. It's not going to be as reliable. SYM's engines are regularly known to go 80,000 miles before wearing out, Vespa's would too if people decided to actually ride them instead of posing for photos in front of coffee shops as I know the Piaggio Fly 150's have reports of such high miles in Australia, Hondas well we all know they'll run forever. Nobody on this board will claim their GY6 150cc engines can get to those kinds of miles even as much as we love our Chinese scooters, we'll readily admit their faults and downsides.

everybodys a "engineer" on the interwebsss...

I just can't get over the scooter with the roof and windshield.

Yes except I'm also one in real life. This is why us engineers hold such disdain for designers. You make assumptions, don't care about science, and don't believe facts when presented clear as day in front of you. I've met enough designers whose principal talent is BS. I'll tell you one thing, you don't have an open mind, None of us here claim our stuff is as good as the name brand stuff because we know it's not but we love our Chinese bikes still for their value, but we understand the limits of their quality.

Where I work we're not even allowed to buy Chinese steel for a good reason. We make critical helicopter and turbine engine components and because of rampant certification falsification in China, Chinese steel mills can give us contaminated steel which when hardened beyond Rockwell HRC 40 will catastrophically fail without warning. We buy metal from India, Europe, Japan no problem the certifications can be traced, verified and the steel tested. We sent Chinese steel to an independent certification lab and came back half of the samples were contaminated even though they were "certified" by the Chinese company as pure. All it takes to buy a certification in China is a few bucks.

And the difference is you've posted claims and opinions with no proof. Everyone's might be an engineer on the interwebs but at least those people try to back their claims up with something resembling proof. You're basically saying a Ford Model T can be made to the same quality a modern Honda Civic with just some minor upgrades. It simply can't. And the GY6 is a nearly 50 year old design so most definitely technology has progressed way passed this nearly half century old design.

When I say the metallurgy is different even between different GY6 engine manufacturers it's no joke. For example in our cheap Chinese scooters how often do we stress adjusting the valves? It's usually the first thing we suggest when engines have running or starting problems. I had a Honda Metropolitan it's 50cc. I sold it at 15,000 miles and the valves were still in spec and didn't need adjustment. Try going that far on a GY6 without adjusting the valves. You won't. Valve recession is one glaring hole in your Chinese is just as good as European and Japanese brands. You can replace all the hoses you want. Unless you can pop those cheap stainless valve seats and replace them with real Stellite valve seats you're not gonna have the same valve durability period.

Do you even know what the ceramic coated cylinders in SYM's engines is? It's Nikasil. If you've never seen it before this stuff is so durable when your engine finally loses compression at 75,000 miles all you have to do is put new rings in and you'll be good to go. It literally does not wear out and won't need reboring or rehoning. But in order to make an engine that durable you need a more solid lower end, better cranks and connecting rod bearings and crankshaft bearings. Something the Chinese GY6's lack because of the need to keep tighter manufacturing tolerances and strict quality control all of which costs money which is why the Taiwanese scooters cost nearly as much as the Japanese ones.

I've posted specific models and makes you can look up. Even in the best possible OEM manufactured condition the GY6 engine design is limited in its possible specific output, ie hp to displacement. I could go further but it would take a lot longer posts. But if you can refute any of my claims with facts and not opinion. Please feel free. As an engineer I actually welcome it, as taking constructive criticism is part of the job, you need to be able to take it and use it to design and produce better products, improve quality and reduce costs.

But right now you're the one whose quite short on facts and way too long on opinion. Back it up and make me eat my words. Again I welcome it.

[i DO NOT wish to rethink my sig, i stand by it 100%...if you have read my sig CORRECTLY it says "upgraded" so if you put them naked side to side with a upgraded gy6, its a different story plus there are more gy6 in the streets than brand name scoots in the us...]

Hey man, I meant no disrespect to your sig. I should have typed a bit more.

When I was in VoTech school back in the early 70's, my shop was welding/fabricating. When I first removed the covers from my brand new scooter (before 300 miles) to figure out the gas feeding issue it had, the welds jumped out at me as being *unpassable in my shop class*. I see porisity, I see unfinished welds, I see slag in some, I see splatter painted over, areas where weld should be just a spec maybe.
All things I'd fail with (in vo-tech) if it was a required weldment.
Never meant to upset you man, but I know what I know, and I spent YEARS fabricating, before I started to build and erect/start up web printing presses.
Think what you will man, I'm finished with this thread.

OK, here's my two cents on this topic. Will a Chinese GY6 last as long under the same conditions as a Chinese SYM GY6 or Honda PCX. No. That's why you have to observe the limits. Cruise all day at 45 mph and 3/4 throttle on a Chinese GY6 150, it will last a good long time. Someone mentioned Acworthpatricks Automoto, he just passed 40,000 miles. What he didn't mention is his Baccio GY6 scooter. he's well above 45,000 miles on that and, yes, he just replaced the rear gears but not the engine bits.
What I find interesting is this "My expensive 50cc scooter will outlast a cheap GY6". I would think so. At $2000 for a 50cc Piaggio Typhoon or Aprilia, I would hope so.
Here's my point. Plenty of people out there are nailing down incredible miles on cheap GY6s by riding with their heads. Truth be told Chinese GY6s are like Harleys. Mod and ride them hard-they blow up. Leave them stock, do the maintenance and ride sensibly and they get high mileage.

It's a Universal Formula.

When your talking about gy6 are we talking just motor or whole scooter? I'm just courious. The motor in my oppinion is the best thing on these scooters. At 10000 km I can say with the exception of a small oil leak the motor is good its the cheap plastics and electrical crap that I have the most issues with when I have problems.