Recommendations?

[Rattled81]

My daughter is coming up to that age when she wants to learn to drive a car. We suggested she buy a scooter first, to gain some experience on the road. Is there a specific make that you'd recommend as a first ride?

[teddy554]

Well if you want to go chinese I would suggest a sunny style scooter because of the size and weight but most are pretty slow 25-30 and she would be in a lot of bad situations with cars riding close behind and there is the maintenance upkeep that is more demanding. If you go name brand like the Yamaha zumas used you can get a light and peppy 2t scooter that will do about 45 mph stock and help her feel more comfortable in traffic better reliability and she would get more enjoyment and not a disdain taste for scooters. I have been driving since 15 myself and feel very uncomfortable on a slow scooter in traffic. There are some Chinese makes of 2t still out there if you want to go that way just let me know i can send you some links

[Rattled81]

Thank you for your advice. I'm a little nervous thinking about how fast she will be travelling in traffic, but I take your point that she will be safer if she isn't too slow. I do like Yamahas, and I'm considering a used one at the moment.

[scootnwinn]

Look at all the little Honda's too, metros, elites etc. In many situations, on small scooters at least, power is your friend do consider looking at 150's as well... There are licensing advantages to 50cc's but most go away in most states when the scooter is able to go faster than 30 or so be sure you understand the law before you pull the trigger. No matter what you do have her take a MSF course it will teach her more about defensive driving in any situation than many car oriented courses...

[inuyasha]

Hi
First have her take an MSF course
http://msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm?spl...rCourse%20Info
This is an excellent guide
http://msf-usa.org/downloads/Scooter-tips-2005.pdf
Aprilia Still imports 2 stroke scoots, one like mine is more then capable of keeping up with the traffic quite easily
A 2 stroke 50 or a 4 stroke 150 are my recomendations
http://motorscooterguide.net/Article...OR4Stroke.html
Also dont forget riding gear

Take care and ride safely
Your Hank

[scootnwinn]

Oh and I forgot ATGATT get her a nice jacket, gloves, helmet, etc.... Yes they should match the bike

[prodigit]

Yeah, 50cc is kinda slow. It requires an advanced rider to keep up with the traffic.
Any 150cc would be fast enough..

In all honesty, sending your daughter off in traffic on a scoot is generally a bad idea!
A scoot is way less safe than a car.
I've seen some second had smart cars sold for $10k. They're nice and fun to ride in the city! At least she will be protected, because accidents are bound to happen.
If she never ridden a bike in traffic a lot, don't give her a scoot; a car is more costly, but a lot safer!

My opinion...

Besides, a chinese scoot generally requires someone who's willing to work on it, as very few dealers are willing to work on them.

[scootnwinn]

Originally Posted by prodigit

A scoot is way less safe than a car.

I hate this perception. I know this is a can of worms but, the statistics show that if you remove the hooligan factor i.e., excessive speed, brake over run due to excessive speed, helmetless shenanigans and so on, that motorcycling is about even with car driving. Add ATGATT and those statistics suddenly don't seem to say riding is unsafe, just stupid riding is unsafe but then again that's why we call it stupid right. Most accidents, and I mean like the vast majority, that result in death happen to poorly trained, unhelmeted, no gear wearing, weekend (if that often) riders who are out to show their friends how cool they are. I am unaware of any study that excludes unsafe practices or only keeps track of well trained properly geared riders results in their reports. Additionally all statistics are nationwide. This says nothing about how much more aware of bikes people are when they are more common...

Here in New Mexico I threw the studies out the window and I keep track only of reality. Last 2 years all but one fatality was un-helmeted, there was a total of 10 or so. The helmeted one who died was hit head on by a drunk driver, his passenger survived, I don't know that any car smart or otherwise would have faired much better...

I know a lot of people who work in emergency rooms and almost all the ones who work in the local one here. They have mentioned how unsafe riding was to me I asked them if they ever had a rider dressed like me, ATGATT, in the ER I have yet to find one who did... Makes you wonder...

More later must get back to work, Sorry for the open can of worms

[prodigit]

Scooters are more nimble, thus are ridden more dangerously (often zigzagging in traffic).
Scooters offer less protection, thus an accident always results in more trauma for a scootard than a cager.

What I wrote here, is only common sense.

The problem is:
1- If she was getting a 50cc, her chances of having a minor accident would get up a lot higher, because of the way they are ridden.
2- If she was getting a 150cc, her chances of an accident would be the highest of all, because a 150cc can be used to zigzag in traffic, but it can also be used at higher speeds.
3- If she was getting a 250cc+ bike, her chances of minor accidents would decrease, but the ones of major accidents would increase. This due to the way such bike is ridden, as 250+cc bikes generally are ridden like a car, and not to zigzag between traffic. On the other hand, 250cc can still zigzag between traffic, even at highway speeds; and an accident there, is most surely going to be graver.

A scooter is prone to accidents with cars while being in the car's blind spot. A car has less that possibility.

A 150cc scooter is kind of the same as a car in acceleration, and useable speeds not on the interstate (upto 50-60MPH).

A scooter in an accident will be worse for the rider, than a car in an accident, in which chances are greater that the other party will have more extensive damage.

Regardless, a 50cc scooter is not a bad way to learn to ride in traffic.
Less major accidents, more minor ones (like bumping against car mirrors, sliding in a corner at lower speeds, etc..)...

Also, let's not forget scooter stability is way lower than a car's.

[scootnwinn]

Sorry can't resist...

Originally Posted by prodigit

Scooters are more nimble, thus are ridden more dangerously (often zigzagging in traffic). Says who? I ride mine safely
Scooters offer less protection, thus an accident always results in more trauma for a scootard than a cager. You said always, bad idea, I'm sure a 5 min googling can show that is not always the case

What I wrote here, is only common sense.

The problem is:
1- If she was getting a 50cc, her chances of having a minor accident would get up a lot higher, because of the way they are ridden. No one will force her to ride like an idiot zipping dangerously in traffic
2- If she was getting a 150cc, her chances of an accident would be the highest of all, because a 150cc can be used to zigzag in traffic, but it can also be used at higher speeds. Higher speeds can result in greater injury however more power can also result in the ability to move out of the way I think it's a wash. Once again no matter how fast a bike can go it will only go as fast as the rider wishes.. No one forces you to ride like an idiot based on engine size
3- If she was getting a 250cc+ bike, her chances of minor accidents would decrease, but the ones of major accidents would increase. This due to the way such bike is ridden, as 250+cc bikes generally are ridden like a car, and not to zigzag between traffic. On the other hand, 250cc can still zigzag between traffic, even at highway speeds; and an accident there, is most surely going to be graver. Sorry this is just a mess of opinion not based in fact, a head on collision would likely be fatal... in any vehicle at highway speed. I have known more people who survived crashes at highway speeds (non-head-on type) than those who were killed. All of them wore helmets some of them were zipping through traffic on liter bikes...

A scooter is prone to accidents with cars while being in the car's blind spot. A car has less that possibility. Every thing is prone to accidents in a drivers blind spot DON'T RIDE THERE EVER NO MATTER WHAT SIZE BIKE/CAR OR WHATEVER YOU ARE IN!!

A 150cc scooter is kind of the same as a car in acceleration, and useable speeds not on the interstate (upto 50-60MPH).

A scooter in an accident will be worse for the rider, than a car in an accident, in which chances are greater that the other party will have more extensive damage. Maybe I have been in one motrocycle accident where this was not true. If the rider bails and misses all the hard parts he may just brush himself off and ride home

Regardless, a 50cc scooter is not a bad way to learn to ride in traffic.
Less major accidents, more minor ones (like bumping against car mirrors, sliding in a corner at lower speeds, etc..)... My dad has ridden motorcycles from 50cc to 1800cc for over 40 years and never had any accidents (except when he motocrossed but that's a whole other game) so its possible to never have an accident really all mine I am ashamed to say were related in some way to my former substance abuse (except the desert racing ones but that's a whole other game) I believe I will ride the rest of my life accident free. I gear up like every ride will end with a crash..

Also, let's not forget scooter stability is way lower than a car's. Sometimes

Motorcycling seems inherently unsafe but any vehicular travel is...

Many people wreck motorcycles at great speeds and finish races...

Lets continue this debate in thread we aren't high jacking...

[prodigit]

Originally Posted by scootnwinn

Sorry can't resist...



Motorcycling seems inherently unsafe but any vehicular travel is...

Many people wreck motorcycles at great speeds and finish races...

Lets continue this debate in thread we aren't high jacking...

You seem to forget a few things:

An accident is an accident, and happens without the rider being able to do much about it in many cases.

Let's analyze your responses here:
"Says who? I ride mine safely"
Never ridden in between cars in traffic? Never zipped between cars what is safe for a scooter, but impossible for a car?

"You said always, bad idea, I'm sure a 5 min googling can show that is not always the case"
You're nitpicking. Over 99% of cases a cager is protected while a scootard is not.

No one will force her to ride like an idiot zipping dangerously in traffic
And no one will prevent her from doing it neither, yet it happens all the time!

Higher speeds can result in greater injury however more power can also result in the ability to move out of the way I think it's a wash. Once again no matter how fast a bike can go it will only go as fast as the rider wishes.. No one forces you to ride like an idiot based on engine size
This I think is the greatest baloney I've ever heard; the age old debate about 'power to move out of the way'.
No longer valid in this day and age!
More power to move out of the way, results in a heavier motor, heavier bike, less nimbleness to zigzag between trouble, and you seem to forget that the FIRST and PRIMARY solution to getting out of trouble, aside from riding around it, is to use the brakes (which work better on a small bike, than on a big one), not the accelerator!

Sorry this is just a mess of opinion not based in fact, a head on collision would likely be fatal... in any vehicle at highway speed. I have known more people who survived crashes at highway speeds (non-head-on type) than those who were killed. All of them wore helmets some of them were zipping through traffic on liter bikes...

So are your 'Opinions'. Highway accident does not mean head on collision, In fact, that would almost be impossible on the highway, as there is a wall dividing oncoming traffic! More than likely an accident on the highway means sliding, rolling, or someone riding over you; not head on collision!
Now if a rider lost steering on the highway, a scootard would fall off, while a cager would still be protected by his cage.
Again, you're nitpicking, one moment you're on the complete extreme of the spectrum of safety, then you're on the complete other zigzagging with 1000cc bikes on the highway... Isn't it more possible (obvious to me) that a new rider will not do these things on the highway, but might scoot between cars in the city (rather than the other way around)?

Every thing is prone to accidents in a drivers blind spot DON'T RIDE THERE EVER NO MATTER WHAT SIZE BIKE/CAR OR WHATEVER YOU ARE IN!!
1- No need for the caps, and
2- Still, it doesn't take away getting hit by someone's blind spot puts you in a lot more danger as a scootard, than a cager.

Maybe I have been in one motrocycle accident where this was not true. If the rider bails and misses all the hard parts he may just brush himself off and ride home
Again, nitpicking with unlikely scenario's.

"Also, let's not forget scooter stability is way lower than a car's. Sometimes"
Nitpicker!

[scootnwinn]

I forgot to mention Prodigit says he has never crashed on any displacement machine ever makes you wonder were all his info is coming from and certainly negates any validity that his 2nd to last point could possibly ever have had

[Rattled81]

Gosh, I seem to have sparked a debate! Well, at least it's really interesting reading, even though it's left me wondering whether a little Fiat Panda would be better than a scooter. I guess her father and I will have to chew it over for a while longer until we can decide. Thanks guys.

[inuyasha]

Hi
Always wear your gear and helmet, it doesn't matter if your going 50 mph or 5 mph an accident can cause injury

Take care and ride safely
Yours Hank

[amac1680]

Originally Posted by inuyasha

Hi
Always wear your gear and helmet, it doesn't matter if your going 50 mph or 5 mph an accident can cause injury

Sadly so true. In 1993 my brother-in-law, 26 at the time, was hit from behind in a parking lot. The car that hit him was going less than 10 mph. He was going just fast enough to make headway, about 5mph.

He was wearing a top of the line Bell helmet. Upon impact he sustained a brain stem injury that has left him with zero short term memory and a severly compromised body.

Less than 5 mph. Always wear your gear.

Always.

Be Big,
AMAC