Don't make stuff up!

[blueboy5000]

A scooter (or ANY machine for that matter) is a delicate and precision device. If it is not working properly, it's user can be endangered! It is IMPERATIVE to double-check and research when you are unsure of how some aspect of scooter works, or you are unclear as to what to repair or how to repair it.

A scooter can be potentially fatal if it is serviced incorrectly, I have seen people burn their scooters to the ground, wheels fall off while being ridden, and engines destroyed because of "guessing".

An internal combustion engine is inherently dangerous in of itself, but adding an electrical system, and the fact that a scooter is a BICYCLE in nature makes it's very motion unstable (you riding a bike creates ALL the stability) makes the scooter itself exponentially more dangerous.

Scooters are not toys! They are motorcycles. Do not "assume" you know how to fix something. Read up and ask questions! Do not make up advice or techniques if you are unsure of how something works. Disinformation is harmful to both the poster and the reader.

[kz1000st]

Scooters and bicycles are held up by the same science. The gyroscopic motion of their wheels in motion actually prevents them from tipping over. That's why a bike or scooter feels "Tippy" at low speeds but become more stable with speed.

Thank you for acknowledging that scooters are motorcycles. Too many people have pigeonholed themselves into a separate category simply because scooters have small wheels and CVT. You're bikers. A Burgman blowing past looks just the same as a Ninja or sport tourer to most people.

[Houndguy]

+100 to that brother.

[wheelbender6]

I agree with you. I hope something bad didn't happen to you that prompted you to post that.

[cheapeto]

Thats exactly why I have full service manual for my scooter.

[bnc]

Too many people have pigeonholed themselves into a separate category simply because scooters have small wheels and CVT. You're bikers.

I don't necessarily think that is bad. This study says that motorcyclists are involved in three times the number of fatal accidents as scooter riders. The study suggests that not mechanics but attitude is the biggest part of the equation.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/539...orcycles-study

"Scooter riders also exhibit safer behaviour than motorcycle riders, despite both groups meeting the same licensing requirements. This suggests a difference in attitude which sees motorcycle riders taking more risks on the road."

I notice where I am that a disproportionate number of scooter riders are women, perhaps 40% which might affect the statistics.

[kz1000st]

"I don't necessarily think that is bad. This study says that motorcyclists are involved in three times the number of fatal accidents as scooter riders. The study suggests that not mechanics but attitude is the biggest part of the equation."

"The study, by Queensland University of Technology’s Centre for Accident Research and Road Safety (CARRS-Q), claims to be the first to compare the safety levels of mopeds, scooters, and motorcycles."

You do know that A) Motorcycles outsell scooters 10-1 in this country and B) That Queensland is in Australia. Since motorcycles represent a much larger number more accidents are likely, even in Australia. Especially since they're generally faster.

Also look at the percentages. "Motorcycles were the most lethal of the three, according to the research, with 3.4 percent of reported crashed resulting in fatality, compared with one percent of reported moped and scooter crashes."

So motorcycles had 2.4 percent more likely of fatalities. That might be an impressive statistic if it was much higher.

Sorry. You're a biker. Check your registration. It says Motorcycle if it's more than 150cc or a dangerous "Moped" if it's a 50cc scooter here in NY State.

[bnc]

The numbers are based on #of accidents/registered vehicle/kilometer traveled.

For example if in state A

3 accidents/50 motorcycles/5,000 miles

and state B,

6 accidents/100 motorcycles/10,000 miles

By taking the numbers this way, eliminates the influence of the absolute number of a type of vehicle.

So motorcycles had 2.4 percent more likely of fatalities. That might be an impressive statistic if it was much higher.

I am not sure of your intent here. In MSF class there was much emphasis on the high ratio of motorcycle fatalities compared to cars. The ratio was 34 to 1.

Per vehicle mile traveled in 2004, motorcyclists were about 34 times more likely than passenger car occupants to die in a motor vehicle traffic crash

If you take the absolute percentages it is going to be something like 3.4% motorcycles, 1% scooters, 0.1% cars. So the difference between motorcycles and cars is also a not very impressive 3.3%.

The problem with quoting the difference in absolute percentages is that many people will mistakenly think you are saying that they are 3.3% more likely to get killed on a motorcycle than in a car but that number is really 3,400%.

In my opinion MSF has it right to emphasize the danger.

P.S. I have a Kawasaki Ninja so I am a motorcyclist anyway with two scooters.

[Bvance554]

He was likely referring to this post.. where he didn't really make stuff up but googled and posted a couple unrelated links that didn't substantiate the point he was clearly wrong about. I guess in a way he made stuff up, so the moral of the story is don't believe anything you read on an internet forum.

http://scootdawg.net/showthread.php?p=527796#post527796

[bnc]

Yes, I see where he addressed you and used the same words as in the title to this post.

You are right. He does not seem to understand the difference between a voltage source having a capacity to deliver 200 CCA or 14 CCA and what it actually delivers which is dependent on the load.

For example, both a 12 volt battery capable of delivering 14 CCA and one capable of delivering 200 CCA will deliver the same current to a 12 ohm resistor. From Ohm's law, I=V/R = 12 volts/12 ohms = 1 ampere.

If a .2 ohm resistor is connected to the 12 volt, 200 CCA battery, it will deliver, I = V/R = 12 volts/ .2 ohm = 60 amperes but if it is connected to the battery only capable of 12 volts and 14 CCA; the battery will not be able to supply 60 amperes. Engineers typically will model a lower capacity battery as having a higher internal resistance so that a load that draws current beyond its capacity will cause the output voltage to drop.

I think he is also very confused about what a voltage regulator does. The voltage regulator usually has about six diodes (rectifiers) that convert three phase AC to DC but that DC cannot be used to run the bike because the AC and DC voltages both increase linearly with rpm. For example, at 1,000 rpm the DC might be 13 volts but at 2,000 rpm it might be 26 volts, and at 3,000 rpm it might be 39 volts. The regulator makes sure that 13 to 39 volts DC is "regulated" down to a more less constant 13-14 volts DC to charge the battery, run lights, etc.

This is easily verified with an multimeter with AC ranges. One test of the alternator is to disconnect the voltage regulator and measure the AC output of the alternator at some fixed rpm. I have one bike where the spec at 4,000 rpm is 60 volts AC. You don't want to convert 60 volts AC to 60 volts DC and charge the battery with it.

[Admin]

Let's remember, just because someone may have the wrong info, or different views than you, doesnt exactly mean they're 'making it up'.

I'm sure the intent was noble. Theyre still trying to help. I dont think anyone ever sets out to purposely give someone bad advice in hopes to screw up their machine.

You can disagree and give your opinion/facts, but let's not villainize someone for being ill-informed.

[bnc]

True, I don't think there was bad intent here, but there is a certain irony to this thread title.

[bandito2]

Originally Posted by Admin

Let's remember, just because someone may have the wrong info, or different views than you, doesn't exactly mean they're 'making it up.

I'm sure the intent was noble. They're still trying to help. I don't think anyone ever sets out to purposely give someone bad advice in hopes to screw up their machine.

You can disagree and give your opinion/facts, but let's not villainize someone for being ill-informed.

But sometimes they do make stuff up. And their "noble intent" can be called into question as well. I get this sort of thing with a fair amount of regularity when the discussion about using car tires on bikes comes up. However, I do agree that I don't think anyone on these bike/scooter forums really sets out to try to get things screwed up. But they can and do jump on you without thinking things through very well. For example an exchange I had on another forum:

Poster: "Riders seriously injured or killed due to running a car tire seldom post message here after the fact..."

My response:
"Riders seriously injured or killed due to running a motorcycle/scooter tire seldom post messages here after the fact either..." It's a weak straw-man argument and is biased because it does not also include the accompanying information about motorcycle tires. You have only presented half of the truth with your statement.."

= = = = = = = = = =

Actually that was one of the more civil exchanges I've been in on the subject... Usually they just attack the message AND the messenger with knee jerk reactions lacking logic with unfounded, erroneous information, or no experience or information at all. I get villainized quite often and I'm not even being an aggressor.

The relative anonymity of the internet allows for some to go on flaming jags... some pretty badly. Some folks just have little self control.....Thank goodness for moderators..... It's a tough job sometimes I'd imagine.....

[Irish]

Originally Posted by blueboy5000

A scooter (or ANY machine for that matter) is a delicate and precision device. If it is not working properly, it's user can be endangered! It is IMPERATIVE to double-check and research when you are unsure of how some aspect of scooter works, or you are unclear as to what to repair or how to repair it.

A scooter can be potentially fatal if it is serviced incorrectly, I have seen people burn their scooters to the ground, wheels fall off while being ridden, and engines destroyed because of "guessing".

An internal combustion engine is inherently dangerous in of itself, but adding an electrical system, and the fact that a scooter is a BICYCLE in nature makes it's very motion unstable (you riding a bike creates ALL the stability) makes the scooter itself exponentially more dangerous.

Scooters are not toys! They are motorcycles. Do not "assume" you know how to fix something. Read up and ask questions! Do not make up advice or techniques if you are unsure of how something works. Disinformation is harmful to both the poster and the reader.

If you want to see what people think is alright but would scare YOU to ride , You should see what comes into a shop! Unfortunately as a mechanic , in a shop , You have to test ride them when you are done! I ran two shops in N.H. & all you can do is point out what is wrong to the owner & try not to hurt his feelings! (EVERYONE THINKS THAT THEY'RE A MECHANIC) A mechanic is dirt until their transportation won't start. Then they are a God! Irish