Headlights & Stator & Rectifier - Page 2

Crash4723 · 06-05-2013, 06:07 PM

Replaced regulator three times now. I am still stuck with the same issue. Headlight, tail lights, dash lights are at approximately 50% brightness. At idle I get 6.5v from the headlight plug, the marker light plug, and the tail light plug. At 3k RPM I get 8v from each plug. I am going to check the voltage from the yellow wire coming out of the stator going into the regulator and see what it is at. Any idea what it should be? Raw AC voltage from the stator at idle?

DW · 06-05-2013, 10:23 PM

It will vary with rpm's. Checking it at the headlight is the same as checking the yellow wire from the stator. I suspect the stator is your problem.

Crash4723 · 06-06-2013, 02:22 AM

Wait a minute... The voltage at the headlight should be around 12v. The yellow wire coming from the stator is un-regulated voltage, it goes into the regulator (to be regulated to around 12v) then comes back out and splits to the lights?? Right? There's no way raw voltage is fed directly to the headlights.

Crash4723 · 06-06-2013, 02:26 AM

Maybe I am confused with how and what the stator creates. I thought the stator created raw AC voltage, sent it to the regulator that in turn regulated it (for AC lighting) and changed it to DC for battery charging..

Crash4723 · 06-06-2013, 02:35 AM

What was explained in the diagram makes sense though.. The auto choke is super slow in releasing and bringing the engine off high idle. If it is only getting 8v then that makes sense.. But I get 13.9v at the battery and I've never had the battery drain down, so I assumed the stator was working properly.

DW · 06-06-2013, 03:14 AM

Your right about the choke but mistaken about the stator. The stator has 3 separate coils that share a common ground. One coil powers the CDI with A/C and the voltage is regulated by the CDI. Second coil powers the head/tail lights and choke which are A/C (yellow wire) and the EXCESS voltage is then drained off through the regulator to ground. The third coil (white wire) goes directly to the regulator and is converted to D/C and regulated at 14.5Vdc to run more lights and gauges and charge the battery. So if you have one bad coil in your stator connected to the yellow wire, the other two circuits aren't affected.

Keep in mind that the headlights and perhaps some running lights go through the high beam switch first so the wire is a different color at the socket.

BTW if you run the bike with the regulator unplugged there is no place for the excess current to go except through the bulbs. This is why blown bulbs and blown regulators go hand in hand.

Everything you ever knew about wiring gets thrown out the window on chinabikes lol.

Crash4723 · 06-06-2013, 12:00 PM

lol.. Agreed.. But on my bike if I run the bike without the regulator I don't have any lights at all.

qwertydude · 06-06-2013, 09:51 PM

150cc scooters often run headlights as DC straight from the regulator. When you turn on the ignition but have the engine off do your headlights work? Or do you have to press the brake then they work? Also when you press the brakes do your brake lights work normally?

If you press both brakes does it go dim again? Without diagnosing this problem, constantly replacing regulators will do you no good. I'm betting the problem is miswired lighting. Wouldn't be the first time this happened.

Try unplugging both brake switch wires. Then connect them one at a time normally to see if any of those are causing problems.

If not then I would remove every external light bulb but the headlights. That means turn signals and brake lights.

If you unplug the turn signals and brake lights you're isolating the head lights from possible wiring problems from the brake lights which should show up as normal running headlights.

Also post a picture of the rectifier, we need to know what type of rectifier this is, 5 wire or 6 wire it might be able to tell us of the plug has been miswired.

Because the above diagram looks more like a 4 wire 50cc wiring diagram. The 150cc often has 5 or 6 wire regulators.

Crash4723 · 06-07-2013, 02:08 PM

Well, the headlights, tail lights, and the dash lights only work while the engine is running. Brake lights, turn signals work off the battery without the engine running. The brake lights work perfectly, the turn signals work perfectly too. The wiring has not been changed since the headlight and tail light and dash lights worked properly, so I don't think it is a wiring issue.

The regulator is a 4 pin plug. I have three different varying size regulators that I bought from different suppliers, all with the standard 4 pin plug. The color coded wires match on each plug.

qwertydude · 06-08-2013, 11:32 AM

Keep replacing regulators then. If you don't want to do actual diagnosing work. You'll find the problem eventually when you just end up replacing every component you suspect might be the issue.

Diagnosing problems is a methodical method. I'm trying over the internet to help you, likely with a multimeter I could easily diagnose the problem in about 15 minutes. But it takes more directed and sometimes more tedious diagnosing procedure to guide someone through an electrical system.

But if you know more about the wiring system and know it's good 100% then why do you have electrical issues to begin with.

Like people here have said you replaced the regulator three times. Doing it a fourth time won't help. The only other two possibilities are wiring or the stator. If you're sure it's not wiring, and I can think of a couple wiring possibilities that can give you the symptoms you describe, then it has to be the stator. Do you want to risk replacing the stator and have the problem still be there? That's a rather costly diagnosing procedure. When the advice I gave to help diagnose is 100% free. Only costs a little bit of time and effort.

But if you know more than me...

Crash4723 · 06-09-2013, 01:09 AM

Qwertydude, you don't have to be a smart ass about it. I answered most of the questions you asked. You asked if when I pressed both brake handles if the lights go dim again? My problem is that they are always dim. They never get more then about 8 volts at any given time. I have a multimeter, and I know how to use it. The stator is putting out about 15 vac at idle, 26 vac at about 3k rpm, this is of course with the regulator unplugged. On e the regulator is plugged back in my volts on the yellow wire straight from the stator stays right at a out 8 vac, each light plug stays at the same too.

You stated that most 150cc scoots come with a 5 or 6 pin regulator, but this is my 3rd 150cc in the last 4 years and all three of them came with a 4 pin regulator.

The headlights, tail lights, and dash lights all work off AC voltage. They do not work off the battery or DC voltage. They don't work with the engine off. The only things that work of the DC voltage, battery, and/or with the engine not running are the brake lights, turn signals, flashers, and horn.

Don't get me wrong, I Appreciate the help and advice, but if you're going to sling mud at me then thanks but no thanks.

qwertydude · 06-09-2013, 05:11 PM

It will be very hard to isolate the problem if the wiring system is still whole. You need to be able to 100% know every link in the wiring system is going where it should and the wires leading to them are a solid connection, believe me you might think pulling light bulbs is an unnecessary idea but a single miswired brake wire or light bulb can cause those symptoms. Unless you've physically traced every wire is going to it's proper destination you can't rule out a miswired wiring harness.

So if there's an alarm system you need to disable it by unplugging it completely. All the light bulbs it's a good idea to unplug them, this was actually advice posted by a previous poster. Basically if you have dim headlights you want to be able to isolate all the wiring going to just those headlights and light bulbs. Making it as simple as tracing one path, stator, regulator and headlight bulbs.

Draining the battery and having the lights temporarily restored also might still be a grounding issue. I would check continuity of the wires and connectors and just for good measure temporarily mock up a grounding probe. Then with the scooter running probe both sides of all the the connectors on the green wires of the now isolated headlights and also probe to see if grounding the heatsink of the regulators helps. This will determine if the ground is being lost anywhere, due to bad connections or even broken wires, as stated by previous posters. This is why you want to unplug all the rest of the bulbs so there's less to investigate if unplugging the bulbs doesn't lead to a diagnosis.

Not trying to sling mud but you seem very resistant to several people's good advice. This site is relatively new. So it's hard to really see who has all the real experience to give good advice. But the advice given is pretty standard, and even on this thread surprisingly consistent when it comes to diagnosing electrical problems. In this case have you done everything to isolate the problem and half split it to the actual component? Unless you pulled every bulb and removed all sources of extraneous grounds, and ground checked every green wire you can't say you have.

If you replaced the stator too that means you've replaced the regulator, and stator but still believe it not to be the wiring. That makes it difficult for me to believe you've done a wiring diagnosis. Next step if you don't want to do a complete wiring diagnosis, put a whole new wire harness in. You've already replaced all the other components already, and doing them multiple times obviously hasn't helped.

DW · 06-10-2013, 07:02 PM

Isolate the yellow stator wire by removing it from the connector. Start the engine and check A/Cv on the yellow stator wire make sure the meter has a good engine ground to the black probe. It should be something over 12v. If it tests good then pull all the bulbs that come on with the engine and unplug the regulator and auto choke and remote start if equipped. Now do a continuity test to ground on ALL the bulb sockets including the ground wires. If you have lighted mirrors, check those too and the often missed license plate bulb. With everything disconnected you should NOT have continuity on anything but the grounds.

Crash4723 · 06-10-2013, 08:35 PM

I unplugged the entire stator 3 wire connection where it joins the wiring harness. The stator is putting out about 15 vac at idle, 26 vac at about 3k rpm. I will have time this coming weekend to isolate each bulb socket and wire. Until then I am riding the scoot to and from work, during daylight hours of course.

DW · 06-10-2013, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash4723

I unplugged the entire stator 3 wire connection where it joins the wiring harness. The stator is putting out about 15 vac at idle, 26 vac at about 3k rpm. I will have time this coming weekend to isolate each bulb socket and wire. Until then I am riding the scoot to and from work, during daylight hours of course.

Is it safe to assume that you checked each stator terminal individually with the black probe to a good engine ground and the red probe on one wire at a time?

You didn't state which wires you tested and what results you got for each stator wire with it unplugged.

06-06-2013, 03:14 AM	#21
DW Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 41	Your right about the choke but mistaken about the stator. The stator has 3 separate coils that share a common ground. One coil powers the CDI with A/C and the voltage is regulated by the CDI. Second coil powers the head/tail lights and choke which are A/C (yellow wire) and the EXCESS voltage is then drained off through the regulator to ground. The third coil (white wire) goes directly to the regulator and is converted to D/C and regulated at 14.5Vdc to run more lights and gauges and charge the battery. So if you have one bad coil in your stator connected to the yellow wire, the other two circuits aren't affected.Keep in mind that the headlights and perhaps some running lights go through the high beam switch first so the wire is a different color at the socket. BTW if you run the bike with the regulator unplugged there is no place for the excess current to go except through the bulbs. This is why blown bulbs and blown regulators go hand in hand. Everything you ever knew about wiring gets thrown out the window on chinabikes lol.
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06-05-2013, 10:23 PM	#17
DW Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 41	It will vary with rpm's. Checking it at the headlight is the same as checking the yellow wire from the stator. I suspect the stator is your problem.
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06-06-2013, 02:26 AM	#19
Crash4723 Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 27	Maybe I am confused with how and what the stator creates. I thought the stator created raw AC voltage, sent it to the regulator that in turn regulated it (for AC lighting) and changed it to DC for battery charging..
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06-06-2013, 12:00 PM	#22
Crash4723 Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 27	lol.. Agreed.. But on my bike if I run the bike without the regulator I don't have any lights at all.
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06-06-2013, 09:51 PM	#23
qwertydude Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 139	150cc scooters often run headlights as DC straight from the regulator. When you turn on the ignition but have the engine off do your headlights work? Or do you have to press the brake then they work? Also when you press the brakes do your brake lights work normally? If you press both brakes does it go dim again? Without diagnosing this problem, constantly replacing regulators will do you no good. I'm betting the problem is miswired lighting. Wouldn't be the first time this happened. Try unplugging both brake switch wires. Then connect them one at a time normally to see if any of those are causing problems. If not then I would remove every external light bulb but the headlights. That means turn signals and brake lights. If you unplug the turn signals and brake lights you're isolating the head lights from possible wiring problems from the brake lights which should show up as normal running headlights. Also post a picture of the rectifier, we need to know what type of rectifier this is, 5 wire or 6 wire it might be able to tell us of the plug has been miswired. Because the above diagram looks more like a 4 wire 50cc wiring diagram. The 150cc often has 5 or 6 wire regulators.
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06-07-2013, 02:08 PM	#24
Crash4723 Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 27	Well, the headlights, tail lights, and the dash lights only work while the engine is running. Brake lights, turn signals work off the battery without the engine running. The brake lights work perfectly, the turn signals work perfectly too. The wiring has not been changed since the headlight and tail light and dash lights worked properly, so I don't think it is a wiring issue. The regulator is a 4 pin plug. I have three different varying size regulators that I bought from different suppliers, all with the standard 4 pin plug. The color coded wires match on each plug.
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06-08-2013, 11:32 AM	#25
qwertydude Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 139	Keep replacing regulators then. If you don't want to do actual diagnosing work. You'll find the problem eventually when you just end up replacing every component you suspect might be the issue. Diagnosing problems is a methodical method. I'm trying over the internet to help you, likely with a multimeter I could easily diagnose the problem in about 15 minutes. But it takes more directed and sometimes more tedious diagnosing procedure to guide someone through an electrical system. But if you know more about the wiring system and know it's good 100% then why do you have electrical issues to begin with. Like people here have said you replaced the regulator three times. Doing it a fourth time won't help. The only other two possibilities are wiring or the stator. If you're sure it's not wiring, and I can think of a couple wiring possibilities that can give you the symptoms you describe, then it has to be the stator. Do you want to risk replacing the stator and have the problem still be there? That's a rather costly diagnosing procedure. When the advice I gave to help diagnose is 100% free. Only costs a little bit of time and effort. But if you know more than me...
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06-09-2013, 01:09 AM	#26
Crash4723 Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 27	Qwertydude, you don't have to be a smart ass about it. I answered most of the questions you asked. You asked if when I pressed both brake handles if the lights go dim again? My problem is that they are always dim. They never get more then about 8 volts at any given time. I have a multimeter, and I know how to use it. The stator is putting out about 15 vac at idle, 26 vac at about 3k rpm, this is of course with the regulator unplugged. On e the regulator is plugged back in my volts on the yellow wire straight from the stator stays right at a out 8 vac, each light plug stays at the same too. You stated that most 150cc scoots come with a 5 or 6 pin regulator, but this is my 3rd 150cc in the last 4 years and all three of them came with a 4 pin regulator. The headlights, tail lights, and dash lights all work off AC voltage. They do not work off the battery or DC voltage. They don't work with the engine off. The only things that work of the DC voltage, battery, and/or with the engine not running are the brake lights, turn signals, flashers, and horn. Don't get me wrong, I Appreciate the help and advice, but if you're going to sling mud at me then thanks but no thanks.
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06-09-2013, 05:11 PM	#27
qwertydude Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 139	It will be very hard to isolate the problem if the wiring system is still whole. You need to be able to 100% know every link in the wiring system is going where it should and the wires leading to them are a solid connection, believe me you might think pulling light bulbs is an unnecessary idea but a single miswired brake wire or light bulb can cause those symptoms. Unless you've physically traced every wire is going to it's proper destination you can't rule out a miswired wiring harness. So if there's an alarm system you need to disable it by unplugging it completely. All the light bulbs it's a good idea to unplug them, this was actually advice posted by a previous poster. Basically if you have dim headlights you want to be able to isolate all the wiring going to just those headlights and light bulbs. Making it as simple as tracing one path, stator, regulator and headlight bulbs. Draining the battery and having the lights temporarily restored also might still be a grounding issue. I would check continuity of the wires and connectors and just for good measure temporarily mock up a grounding probe. Then with the scooter running probe both sides of all the the connectors on the green wires of the now isolated headlights and also probe to see if grounding the heatsink of the regulators helps. This will determine if the ground is being lost anywhere, due to bad connections or even broken wires, as stated by previous posters. This is why you want to unplug all the rest of the bulbs so there's less to investigate if unplugging the bulbs doesn't lead to a diagnosis. Not trying to sling mud but you seem very resistant to several people's good advice. This site is relatively new. So it's hard to really see who has all the real experience to give good advice. But the advice given is pretty standard, and even on this thread surprisingly consistent when it comes to diagnosing electrical problems. In this case have you done everything to isolate the problem and half split it to the actual component? Unless you pulled every bulb and removed all sources of extraneous grounds, and ground checked every green wire you can't say you have. If you replaced the stator too that means you've replaced the regulator, and stator but still believe it not to be the wiring. That makes it difficult for me to believe you've done a wiring diagnosis. Next step if you don't want to do a complete wiring diagnosis, put a whole new wire harness in. You've already replaced all the other components already, and doing them multiple times obviously hasn't helped.
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06-10-2013, 07:02 PM	#28
DW Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 41	Isolate the yellow stator wire by removing it from the connector. Start the engine and check A/Cv on the yellow stator wire make sure the meter has a good engine ground to the black probe. It should be something over 12v. If it tests good then pull all the bulbs that come on with the engine and unplug the regulator and auto choke and remote start if equipped. Now do a continuity test to ground on ALL the bulb sockets including the ground wires. If you have lighted mirrors, check those too and the often missed license plate bulb. With everything disconnected you should NOT have continuity on anything but the grounds.
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06-10-2013, 08:35 PM	#29
Crash4723 Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 27	I unplugged the entire stator 3 wire connection where it joins the wiring harness. The stator is putting out about 15 vac at idle, 26 vac at about 3k rpm. I will have time this coming weekend to isolate each bulb socket and wire. Until then I am riding the scoot to and from work, during daylight hours of course.
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