The Real Deal China vs Japan

[spandi]

Well Sn'W the Chinese have been striking for better pay and bennies "just like the workers in Japan" BTW, wages are going up in China by 20% a year (still small by western standards, but I suspect it's not going to stay that way for long)

[prodigit]

He makes some good arguments, but I'd have to disagree on many fields,
first the price,
It seems they compare a lot of second hand big brand bikes, to new chinese.
A lot of people will prefer a new bike over a used one.

Second, prices of the chinese bikes are a bit bloated. You can easily find a NEW 150cc for under $1000, that includes shipping, tag and taxes.

Third, I don't agree on gas mileage!
The Burgman is not at all that good on gas as most chinese bikes are.
It only gets in the 40's despite fuel injection. Most 300cc BBK bikes go in the high 50's for the carbs, the 260 EFI actually gets 80+MPG's, which is literally almost twice the gas mileage.

Most burgmans don't come with helmets; especially not second hand ones!

The reason why you see so many chinese bike failures 'on a daily basis' is because it's a chinese scoot forum!
Go to the honda forum site, and see for yourself that they are not flawless at all!
Suppose a chinese bike fails with a belt. What do you do?
Buy a $30 hi-quality belt, and get nearly the same miles on that belt as an original Honda belt.
So it's just in the initial purchase, when you purchase crap.
The TaoTao I have has about 2,xxx K miles on it, and the belt is still like new.
It all looks like my $800 scooter is good for another 4-6k miles, before tires and belt need replacement.
Not bad at all...

So why compare second hand jap special prices, but you want to take the new chino bike specials out of the equation?

Issue with used burgmans is that they often get sold after 12k miles, when a maintenance is due. Changing a belt on a Burgman is tens of times more costly than on a chinese scoot, not to mention any other maintenance costs; and in many cases it's not fun to do yourself; because burgmans are solid machines without a lot of support on the internet. If something goes wrong, you're basically forced to go to the dealer, and pay $90-120/hr on labor cost!

Or what happens in a crash, or theft? Immediate $5k loss!
A Chino bike equals a $1-$2k loss, unless you buy the fuel injected bikes, that would be $3k loss.
I had a fuel injected 260cc bike, and I can tell you it tops out at 82MPH, more than plenty fast enough!

Aside from my 50cc, I never watch my rear mirrors. Eyes on the road at all times!
Even on a 150cc you have plenty of power to accelerate. I think it's marketing BS to say you 'need' more power. In most cases, when a bike is properly tuned, even a 150cc, or even a 72cc BBK has plenty of power, especially the 2 strokes!

On my 50cc I top out at 50MPH, 55 with wind in the back.
With a strong wind against me, I'm still doing 35MPH.
Once an engine is broken into, it goes a lot faster, and runs a lot better. So in that respect it's also not a fair comparison (comparing a broken in Suzuki to a new chinese engine, that's less than half the displacement).

If you're so much into eco, buy a chinese bike; they usually get at least 20% better fuel economy, and can go upto 60% better fuel economy!

Prices of those second hand links are no longer valid, and localized.
A Kawasaki eliminator with 20k miles on costs between $2k and 2,5k over here, which makes price comparisons moot.

A Kymco agility, second hand is hardly to be found here, and new is too expensive.

[scootnwinn]

I own a Burgman digit it has gotten at least 55 mpg this winter and as good as 66 before it got cold this winter. If its stolen it will be a $2500 loss that's what it will cost to replace.

the engine on my 150 is broken in and when its going into a headwind of 30+ mph (this happens a lot out here) the top speed is 40-45 mph. Not watching your mirrors when you are doing 20-30mph less than the flow of traffic is ill advised. It does not have power to accelerate in this situation. I know the comparison isn't fair I was comparing the comparably priced 250-300 chinese scoots the 150 unmodified is just too small. It cost around $60 to replace the belt on the Burgman.

Their is nothing "eco" about a bike that perpetually leaks oil and will be in the scrap heap after 30k or so... The 72 mpg I got on the 150 is not enough a savings to justify the variable performance for me... I am impressed by your 50 mph 50cc my 150 with 3 times the displacement struggles to maintain 50 in many common situations...

[prodigit]

yes, the Burgman 650 gets in the forties, thanks for setting that straight.

I'll see how the Tao EVO150 holds up to the ATM50, though I probably will need some time breaking in the new engine, as I'm not riding as often anymore as before..

[scootnwinn]

so you did get a 150 I thought you were still kicking tires. Is it on the way or already received? I hope you are as happy with that one as you have been with the little one.

[prodigit]

The EVO150 arrives tomorrow!
Already went to the store to get some oil

[spandi]

Originally Posted by prodigit

The EVO150 arrives tomorrow!
Already went to the store to get some oil

Wonderful! Christmas on Valentines day!

[MEAN_MOTOFINO]

You cant beat jap quality control and R&D. Just for giggles you should compare a Harley to a Japanese sport bike (cbr,r6,gsxr etc not trying to get off topic). The Jap bikes are wayyy ahead technologically. I would think the same with Jap vs China, except there is more of a comparison of Quality Control because they just make poor reproductions of everything, steal other companys ideas & typically arent very good at it but are slowly getting better.

[scootnwinn]

Harley is an unfortunate mess of a bike we won't get started on that. There is an article in a recent Motorcyclist Magazine where they show the room they tune the bike in. Its a sound room they tune them for sound not performance what a joke. Sorry Harley fans just pretend these last 2 posts don't exist...

[spandi]

I'm gonna fake all of you out and put a Honda motor in my Chinese scoot! Now whatjahgonna say?
(jk btw)

[prodigit]

I don't care, as it saves me money!
I work hard, and think I earn some of goodies, but can't afford the real deals out there.
Some people making the harleys or Honda's work on wages more than $30/hr; which would be double my wage; and some company heads earn 10x that amount.
Needless to say, I won't support them, when I have many other priorities pulling at me.
Chinese bikes are a great opportunity for people to get 90-95% the experience of a motorcycle, for 10% of the price (not 10% off, no 10% the price, that's 90% off).

I think it's fair... A scooter is a great investment compared to a motorcycle.
I have a Honda VT750, they say these bikes last forever, which can be true, but I don't like riding them as much as my scoot!

Low MPG's, bad gearing (the CBR/Ninja/sport bikes have good gearing, and good engines at 300cc, but are uncomfortable to sit. The cruisers sit comfortable, but are heavy, and the cheaper cruisers need to rev almost just as hard as a scooter to get to 70MPH. They've got more power, but their gears aren't matched to the engines; plus, they're so heavy and more difficult to handle than a scoot)!

[MEAN_MOTOFINO]

Heres a better comparison of Japan & Chinese than what I did earlier..

My friend happens to own a United Motors 250cc Motor cycle.It has a Vtwin engine with 5 speed trans. Its like prodigit says. The gearing is off, the powerband is depressing (very flat) and the bike is HEAVY for what it is. 450lbs @ 27hp .It is also AIR cooled.

Now a Ninja 300 is a nice bike according to the specs. Its watercooled, 6 speed trans, under 400lbs and I believe its close to 40hp if I remeber right.

Just throwing that out there. I like threads like these

[MEAN_MOTOFINO]

Or the CBR 250 which is 357lbs, watercooled and sports a 6speed trans . It is also fuel injected(as well as the ninja) where as that UM 250 is carbed.

[spandi]

Originally Posted by prodigit

I don't care, as it saves me money!
I work hard, and think I earn some of goodies, but can't afford the real deals out there.
Some people making the harleys or Honda's work on wages more than $30/hr; which would be double my wage; and some company heads earn 10x that amount.
Needless to say, I won't support them, when I have many other priorities pulling at me.
Chinese bikes are a great opportunity for people to get 90-95% the experience of a motorcycle, for 10% of the price (not 10% off, no 10% the price, that's 90% off).

I think it's fair... A scooter is a great investment compared to a motorcycle.
I have a Honda VT750, they say these bikes last forever, which can be true, but I don't like riding them as much as my scoot!

Low MPG's, bad gearing (the CBR/Ninja/sport bikes have good gearing, and good engines at 300cc, but are uncomfortable to sit. The cruisers sit comfortable, but are heavy, and the cheaper cruisers need to rev almost just as hard as a scooter to get to 70MPH. They've got more power, but their gears aren't matched to the engines; plus, they're so heavy and more difficult to handle than a scoot)!

I'm with you, having ridden both motorcycles and scooters I can honestly say: Gotta love my scoot!

[Pearl]

my 2 cents is that you get Chinese and you get Chinese. I have two Chinese scoots a motomia and a linhai and the linhai is far superior in quality and materials used. I got it used and it lived out on a farm besides literary 2 small screws all bolts and body panels were tight which surprised me given the farm roads it was used on.