Differences between two tao tao scooters. - Page 2

hardd1 · 03-03-2013, 07:35 AM

hopefully the op budgets in repair costs for the premature failures..

tdsj · 03-03-2013, 11:35 AM

Yes I did take into account things like a $25 belt needing replaced. And a $60 carb etc. Which in the long run allows me to pay for things here and there instead of trying to come up with an extra $1000-2000 all at once for a name brand scooter.

teddy554 · 03-03-2013, 01:17 PM

i would for sure change the carb but i havnt had a issue with a stock belt yet i would ride it tell it dyes (belt) and have a back up for when it does, even know most scoots Chinese 4t have gy6 based motor there are different grades in them, i have seen some that the metals are so soft and and very under powered and others that are better quality with better power and speed, the worse one i have ever seen was peace renegade 805 form riderswholesale with the very close two atms from provenpowersports but not the dealer fualt just saying where they were bought from

prodigit · 03-03-2013, 03:27 PM

@Teddy: I've never claimed to have a secret 63. I've never been able to verify that myself. There is a chance that I have a larger than 49cc displacement, but don't know if it's 63cc. From the manual I have a 55,7cc. On paper it's a 49cc.

@TDSJ: Yes, same motor, perhaps same CVT too. Though many users who bought their AMT50's with build after 09/2012 have said to easily reach speeds over 42, and I've found 3 other people who's speedometer indicated speeds of greater than 48MPH (the speedometer below the blinker light on the dash).
However, going from 35MPH to 40 takes time, and even longer to go to 45MPH.
And only on a good day will you be able to get to 50+ MPH (like little wind in back).

I've noted that the ATM, when it warms up, it gets faster to those speeds. I've also noted, that it warms up faster with acceleration to top speed, engine brake to standstill, and repeat that process for a few times. On my rides, I often was riding on a 40-45MPH road top speed, and by the time I reached top speed, had to (engine brake) to the next red light. Do that 3 or 4 times, and the ATM accelerates much faster, and can get to 50+MPH within 1 minute.
I say 53MPH, but it's rather ~52 or 51MPH GPS verified.
I got these results using 10W40 oil, BP Premium gasoline (by which I swear it adds at least 10%,if not 20% of performance compared to other gasolines out there), and reduced my spark plug gap to 0.10"(0.254mm) (from stock 0.25" (0.635mm) spacing).
I do have a windshield installed, but I don't claim any speed gains with it.

I personally did not needed to change anything on my ATM50. The spark plug shows no signs of running lean or rich, does wear out a bit every 1000 miles, but it's easy to adjust the gapping, the belt is as good as new after +2k miles, probably can run 6 or 8k miles with the stock belt. Hoses are still good after 6+ months in the elements (hot Florida sun and rain).

Can't speak for VIP, but on the ATM it's entirely unnecessary to replace carb or belt (at least on mine).

tdsj · 03-03-2013, 05:43 PM

A lot of information to take in again. @teddy554 is there a specific carb you would recommend otherwise I might just wing it and pick what ever I find online at a reputable chinese parts outlet. @prodigit i did some searching on youtube for the atm50 and noticed a few that seemed to get above 45. there was one guy on there though that had a windshield and drilled holes in his exaust and added what he called a 95 jet for the carb. I know what jets are but I dont remember if he said what size was in it orig. I'm wondering if since the VIP is slower if it would be less strain on the engine and cause it to last longer? I think my cousin has an atm50 but i haven't been over to his place in a while. I don't know how he has ridden it but he keeps it in a really nice shed that is sealed all around. it takes him a good 10-15 minutes to get it started during colder weather and then about another 10 minutes of letting it warm up. if he doesn't let it warm up it will die when he throttles it. I know this can happen with any cheaper scooter. Aside from things mentioned before I'm just also trying to figure out if they both have the same engine why the vip cost substantially more. I would hope it wasn't just from looks lol.

prodigit · 03-03-2013, 08:13 PM

The VIP is slower because its heavier.
You get the same results with an ATM by not opening the throttle all the way. In fact, if anything, the ATM will last longer when ridden in exactly the same circumstances and environment, because of it's lighter weight.

Tell your cousin to up the idle screw a bit. Not a problem of the bike, just a bad setup that's the same on any chinese scoot.

1- The atm has steel wheels instead of alloy wheels,
2- It has 10in tires, instead of 12
3- It's much simpler in build and much smaller, meaning less material is used to build it.
4- It has a single incandescent headlight, instead of a twin halogen bulb..
5- Steel instead of aluminum exhaust
And the list goes on...

Correction on the above:
Seemingly they have a similar model in VIP as the ATM. So it really depends on what kind of VIP you're talking about.

teddy554 · 03-03-2013, 10:52 PM

Prodgit\Sorry that i was wrong on the 63 couldn't remember if it was you or not

Any carb with access to the inside and a air/fuel screw will be better to tune, Im a name brand kind of person so i would suggest a naraku or hoca brand carb but any carb will do over the stock, you mention a youtube video if he was use any size jet in the 90 range it has a bbk on and isnt a stock 50 or he is just jetted very rich, jet will control the amount of fuel flow and your cusin need a valve adjustment also

tdsj · 03-04-2013, 05:10 PM

Ok guys and gals? I just got back and I went with the VIP model. I wanted the extra storage.

Problems so far...
All they had apparently was the 2012 model.
Even after driving it about 15 miles to get it back it still has trouble staying running when coming to a stop (when the brake is applied) If I start it up and just let it run it seems to do fine until I hit the brake causing the back tire to stop. Then it bogs down and if not revved up lightly it dies out.

The guy at the shop said this wont be a problem during warmer weather. Who knows? I don't. It's 42F right now. Needless to say I'M COLD from the drive home.

Top speed on flat was 35mph
top speed going down hill was 42ish
Going up a hill was 20mph
I fought the wind basically the whole way back.

So my ideas are
new spark plug
better oil (any recommendations?)
premium gas
2 cap fulls of seafoam (i used this with my zuma and it outran all other stock zumas)
And if need be a new carb.
oh and it needs a bath!

The throttle does leave a little to be desired as it seems to have 2 speeds at times lol. either full or very little. But not all the time.

It is a little scratched up here and there but orange is what I wanted and seeing as it was the last one that they had to go pick up from another store while I waited I was making sure I got it.

Not sure if it will be above or below my text but I'm including a picture of it.

Oh and last but not least I added a vibration remote controlled alarm to it for anyone around here with sticky fingers. 120db should deter them better than nothing

scootnwinn · 03-04-2013, 05:15 PM

Nice good job

For your idle you will need to adjust it. there should be an access hole under the seat or the whole bucket may come out. Set the bike on the mainstand and start it up after the bike is HOT I mean run for 15 to 20 minutes. Ok with the bike hot check to see if the rear wheel is spinning if it is find the thumb screw on the right side of the carb and turn it left (? whichever way make the idle speed less?) if it is no spinning your bike is dying because the idle speed is too low turn that screw in until the bike idles with out throttle input. Hope that helps ask if you need more help.

tdsj · 03-04-2013, 05:23 PM

Hey scootwinn. The tire does already spin while it idles. So I do not think I need to adjust it, correct? And thanks for the quick reply

teddy554 · 03-04-2013, 05:29 PM

Nice scoot, Yeah the idle does need to be adjusted but he says his back wheel is turning while at ideal so it already set to high, the air fuel screw need to be adjusted first but most of the taotao comes with a cap on it it needs to be pop off so you can adjust it, then you can properly set your idle were it wont stall or spin the back wheel, adjusting any slack in the throttle cable at the carb will help with throttle play

tdsj · 03-04-2013, 05:41 PM

Hey teddy. Thanks for clarifying that. I've adjusted the air and fuel screws on other mopeds. But I've never adjusted slack in a cable for the carb. How do I go about that?

tdsj · 03-04-2013, 05:45 PM

Never mind lol forgot youtube is my friend He shows the handle being adjusted and mentions it can be adjusted at the carb too but I'm not sure how to do it. I'm guessing it works on the same principle

teddy554 · 03-04-2013, 06:11 PM

i like to use the adjustment on the carb where the cable comes out of the protective sleeve there are to 12mm nuts there,unscrew them, then adjust accordingly a lot of times the one by the throttle isn't enough but being yours is new with no stretch it will be fine, in the video around 28 seconds is the part i like to adjust

tdsj · 03-04-2013, 06:56 PM

Thanks, You were right though I didn't need it. And upon going out side to see how loose the throttle was (which it was a lot) I adjusted it by the handle. And it's nice and tight now with no play. I also adjusted the idle and after a few choice words of it being very picky I got it to idle with the tire spinning at a decent rate but to where it didn't create force when on the ground. I got it to where it stops dying when I hit the brake. I figure I may have to adjust it again once I put better gas and a better spark plug in. I've always liked ngk but now I can't remember what size I have to put in there. All I know is the manual says it needs a gap of 0.6mm-0.7mm

03-03-2013, 10:52 PM	#22
teddy554 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: staunton va Posts: 319	Prodgit\Sorry that i was wrong on the 63 couldn't remember if it was you or not Any carb with access to the inside and a air/fuel screw will be better to tune, Im a name brand kind of person so i would suggest a naraku or hoca brand carb but any carb will do over the stock, you mention a youtube video if he was use any size jet in the 90 range it has a bbk on and isnt a stock 50 or he is just jetted very rich, jet will control the amount of fuel flow and your cusin need a valve adjustment also __________________ 2010 Cpi Oliver 70cc, naruku trans kit, downhill handle bars, tecnigas rsll pipe, s6 4g rollers, Vento R4 with 90cc 1e52qmf technigas next r 100cc pipe Naruku, 21mm race carb, s6 4.5 g rollers
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03-04-2013, 05:15 PM	#24
scootnwinn Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tierra Azul, NM Posts: 739	Nice good job For your idle you will need to adjust it. there should be an access hole under the seat or the whole bucket may come out. Set the bike on the mainstand and start it up after the bike is HOT I mean run for 15 to 20 minutes. Ok with the bike hot check to see if the rear wheel is spinning if it is find the thumb screw on the right side of the carb and turn it left (? whichever way make the idle speed less?) if it is no spinning your bike is dying because the idle speed is too low turn that screw in until the bike idles with out throttle input. Hope that helps ask if you need more help. __________________ Do not fear mistakes. You will know failure. Continue to reach out. - Benjamin Franklin Join the HARDCORE 1983 Honda GL650I SilverWing
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03-04-2013, 05:29 PM	#26
teddy554 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: staunton va Posts: 319	Nice scoot, Yeah the idle does need to be adjusted but he says his back wheel is turning while at ideal so it already set to high, the air fuel screw need to be adjusted first but most of the taotao comes with a cap on it it needs to be pop off so you can adjust it, then you can properly set your idle were it wont stall or spin the back wheel, adjusting any slack in the throttle cable at the carb will help with throttle play __________________ 2010 Cpi Oliver 70cc, naruku trans kit, downhill handle bars, tecnigas rsll pipe, s6 4g rollers, Vento R4 with 90cc 1e52qmf technigas next r 100cc pipe Naruku, 21mm race carb, s6 4.5 g rollers
	0

03-04-2013, 06:11 PM	#29
teddy554 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: staunton va Posts: 319	i like to use the adjustment on the carb where the cable comes out of the protective sleeve there are to 12mm nuts there,unscrew them, then adjust accordingly a lot of times the one by the throttle isn't enough but being yours is new with no stretch it will be fine, in the video around 28 seconds is the part i like to adjust __________________ 2010 Cpi Oliver 70cc, naruku trans kit, downhill handle bars, tecnigas rsll pipe, s6 4g rollers, Vento R4 with 90cc 1e52qmf technigas next r 100cc pipe Naruku, 21mm race carb, s6 4.5 g rollers
	0

03-03-2013, 11:35 AM	#17
tdsj Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Indiana Posts: 49	Yes I did take into account things like a $25 belt needing replaced. And a $60 carb etc. Which in the long run allows me to pay for things here and there instead of trying to come up with an extra $1000-2000 all at once for a name brand scooter.
	0

03-03-2013, 03:27 PM	#19
prodigit Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 390	@Teddy: I've never claimed to have a secret 63. I've never been able to verify that myself. There is a chance that I have a larger than 49cc displacement, but don't know if it's 63cc. From the manual I have a 55,7cc. On paper it's a 49cc. @TDSJ: Yes, same motor, perhaps same CVT too. Though many users who bought their AMT50's with build after 09/2012 have said to easily reach speeds over 42, and I've found 3 other people who's speedometer indicated speeds of greater than 48MPH (the speedometer below the blinker light on the dash). However, going from 35MPH to 40 takes time, and even longer to go to 45MPH. And only on a good day will you be able to get to 50+ MPH (like little wind in back). I've noted that the ATM, when it warms up, it gets faster to those speeds. I've also noted, that it warms up faster with acceleration to top speed, engine brake to standstill, and repeat that process for a few times. On my rides, I often was riding on a 40-45MPH road top speed, and by the time I reached top speed, had to (engine brake) to the next red light. Do that 3 or 4 times, and the ATM accelerates much faster, and can get to 50+MPH within 1 minute. I say 53MPH, but it's rather ~52 or 51MPH GPS verified. I got these results using 10W40 oil, BP Premium gasoline (by which I swear it adds at least 10%,if not 20% of performance compared to other gasolines out there), and reduced my spark plug gap to 0.10"(0.254mm) (from stock 0.25" (0.635mm) spacing). I do have a windshield installed, but I don't claim any speed gains with it. I personally did not needed to change anything on my ATM50. The spark plug shows no signs of running lean or rich, does wear out a bit every 1000 miles, but it's easy to adjust the gapping, the belt is as good as new after +2k miles, probably can run 6 or 8k miles with the stock belt. Hoses are still good after 6+ months in the elements (hot Florida sun and rain). Can't speak for VIP, but on the ATM it's entirely unnecessary to replace carb or belt (at least on mine).
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03-03-2013, 08:13 PM	#21
prodigit Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 390	The VIP is slower because its heavier. You get the same results with an ATM by not opening the throttle all the way. In fact, if anything, the ATM will last longer when ridden in exactly the same circumstances and environment, because of it's lighter weight. Tell your cousin to up the idle screw a bit. Not a problem of the bike, just a bad setup that's the same on any chinese scoot. 1- The atm has steel wheels instead of alloy wheels, 2- It has 10in tires, instead of 12 3- It's much simpler in build and much smaller, meaning less material is used to build it. 4- It has a single incandescent headlight, instead of a twin halogen bulb.. 5- Steel instead of aluminum exhaust And the list goes on... Correction on the above: Seemingly they have a similar model in VIP as the ATM. So it really depends on what kind of VIP you're talking about.
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03-04-2013, 05:23 PM	#25
tdsj Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Indiana Posts: 49	Hey scootwinn. The tire does already spin while it idles. So I do not think I need to adjust it, correct? And thanks for the quick reply
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03-04-2013, 05:41 PM	#27
tdsj Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Indiana Posts: 49	Hey teddy. Thanks for clarifying that. I've adjusted the air and fuel screws on other mopeds. But I've never adjusted slack in a cable for the carb. How do I go about that?
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03-04-2013, 05:45 PM	#28
tdsj Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Indiana Posts: 49	Never mind lol forgot youtube is my friend He shows the handle being adjusted and mentions it can be adjusted at the carb too but I'm not sure how to do it. I'm guessing it works on the same principle
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03-04-2013, 06:56 PM	#30
tdsj Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Indiana Posts: 49	Thanks, You were right though I didn't need it. And upon going out side to see how loose the throttle was (which it was a lot) I adjusted it by the handle. And it's nice and tight now with no play. I also adjusted the idle and after a few choice words of it being very picky I got it to idle with the tire spinning at a decent rate but to where it didn't create force when on the ground. I got it to where it stops dying when I hit the brake. I figure I may have to adjust it again once I put better gas and a better spark plug in. I've always liked ngk but now I can't remember what size I have to put in there. All I know is the manual says it needs a gap of 0.6mm-0.7mm
	0