The Real Deal China vs Japan

[Firehawk989]

Having previously owned 2 Chinese 50cc scooters (4T and 2T) and now having made the jump to a Yamaha BWS 50, (Zuma) I can agree. The Yamaha is faster, smoother, and more reliable than the Chinese scoots. It doesn't rattle over bumps, and it has tons of torque for a 50. The only complaint I have about it is the handling gets a little squirrelly if you hit a small bump while cornering hard, but I think an aftermarket rear shock should fix that. I also miss the underseat storage light that my previous scoot had, but I can rig one of those up easily.

At 12000km, the Yamaha is still in better shape than the Chinese scoots that I got rid of at around 8000km.

[rockie]

Sure who wouldn't like a Honda over a Chinese scooter? But I just can't pay the 4 times greater than price. I have to live with my China bike. Thanks for the info anyway.

[Gimpdog]

I cannot justify spending a lot for a more expensive scoot to add a trike kit to it, when a chinese trike would do well for my needs and be much cheaper. Besides, what trike kit has reverse on it without paying through the nose, LOL. $4000 or so for a new IceBear 300cc (276cc) trike w/ reverse is enough for me...

[skuttadawg]

I have had over 40 mopeds , scooters , motorcross and street bikes mostly Honda and Suzuki with a few Europeans . Well 3 years ago I was sick of putting in 80 dollars a week in gas in a van and had two fever bad . I only had a limited budget and wanted something new instead of one used and abused . I bought a TaoTao ATMa 50 and hated it . I rode a Honda Elite and a hot rod Honda Spree with a 90cc engine that I bought wrecked . I replaced the forks and front tire , changed the gear oil , cleaned the airfilter and never did anything but put in gas and oil and ride . I only used the kickstart a time or two just too see if it worked . I was 18 and drove it like I stole for almost 2 years and only replaced the tires . Well on the second day of owning the TaoTao or POS the piston cracked . It did not ride or handle anything like my Spree which I felt safe at any speed and could ride with no hands where the TaoTao made me nervous at top speed as it felt unstable . I was more relaxed doing 160 MPH on a Honda Hurricane 1000 than at 45+ on the TaoTao . Since it was brand new I took it back had my dealer rebuild with a new " secret 63cc " piston kit . 6 weeks later the piston exploded into pieces . I NEVER once had any of my toys have a fried piston . I decided I needed to read up on the China scoots as they are no where as good as Honda but waaaaay cheaper . A new Honda scooter I could buy a car a good used 600cc cruiser . I joined the old SD and was suggested an Air Sal 50mm BBK as no way did I want another POS piston made out of recycled pot metal and butter . I must say the Air Sal is very good quality and it was a beast compared the 63 . It never gave a problem . I bought a CFMoto Echarm as I needed a stronger scooter to go to college and work as well as just ride around . A friend of a friend blew up his scooter and needed one ASAP as he had two jobs and a newborn baby but no drivers license . I let his take it for a spin and he had the cash in hand before he came to a stop . It still runs and he only had to replace the tires and belt so far . What I liked about CFMoto is they have a 2 year full warranty with unlimited miles where even Honda only has a limited warranty that covered the engine and drivetrain only . Even the tires and bulbs were under the CFMoto warranty . I also liked how the Echarm has Ducatti EFI instead of a carb , disc brakes F&R instead od crappy cabled drum on the rear , and LC engine instead of AC and taller 16 wheels which is like a crossover between a scooter and a motorcycle . To me a true scooter experience it with doughnuts which is what I call fat tires . At over 18k miles I only had 1 valve adjustment and engine and gear oil changes .

I later bought a Jonway Magnum to be my toy project as I missed having a 2T , liked how it has 13s instead of 10s and was thrilled to see it had rear disc brakes with opposed pistons in the caliper instead of a floater(s) that only press from one side . It has street knobbies and the ride reminds me of an old school minibike . It is so stable I can ride with no hands in a curve ( not suggested that others try ) . Bumps , cracks , uneven patches that made my TaoTao and even my Echarm wobble had no effect on my Magnum with wide 130/60/13s . First night I rode it to another county . I had so much fun I ran it out of gas . I have done that in 20 years . Luckily it was 600 feet from a gas station so not too bad of a push . The Magnum is also much lighter than the TaoTao 249lbs vs 186lbs . It has a handsome boy body like the VIPs so it is easy to get to the carb without removing the seat bucket or body panels . I have always loved 2Ts as all of my 49ccs have been a 2T except for the TT which was a secret 63 . Quality was a lot better than the TT as with dual 35w headlights I can see perfect at night on country rides where the TT was just above a candle . The suspension on the Magnum is perfect where the TT it was too wimpy and even the Echarm the rear shocks are too . I did adjust the dampening to the stiffest on the Echarm which did help but it has too much weight on the rear as when I go above 60 it gets sketchy since it does not have enough of the weigh on the front to stabilize it .

Honda and other big name scoots cost so much more as well as the parts with some proprietary where the China use universal parts with a huge selection of aftermarket goodies like a BBK . I have always loved to wrench since I was 9 and all two wheelers need to be serviced . It is so much fun to build a hot rod scooter and pass by cars while getting way more miles out of 3 dollars worth of gas . To me I would rather buy a China scooter and tinker around with it instead of paying so much more for a brand name scoot . If you do not have the experience , tools , place to work but have the extra money then buy a Honda , Kymco , Vespa or Aprilia

[Bob Shaw]

I've got a 2010 TaoTao 150cc and a 2005 Honda Reflex 250cc, and there is a world of difference. the Honda apparently sat for years before I bought it (it only had 1,400 miles on it), but I've never had the plastics off of it. It is solid, comfortable, and reliable, and fun to ride. The TaoTao, started falling apart right after I got it with 700km on it. Things just started falling off, I wasn't on Scoot Dawg yet, so I didn't know whether a PDI was done on it. It has shut down on me a few times, I think the last time was due to bad gas, as a little Sea Foam straightened it out. But, it, the TaoTao is fun to ride around town, and once I got the PDI stuff taken care of, has been pretty reliable. Like Hank said, I actually like them both. When I bought the Honda I had the intention of replacing the TaoTao, but, now I'm keeping then both, one in Georgia and the other in Florida. And I can tell you, my wife is real happy about it....NOT.

[spandi]

Honda quality is excellent, no doubt about that. The problem is the cost for things like parts can be just over-the-top. For instance, I'm replacing my magneto housing, Chinese $50-60, Honda $350 (and I really don't think it's going to be six times better.)

[scootnwinn]

Not sure where your shopping spandi or which bike its for but looks like $100 is more reasonable

http://www.xdcycle.com/discount-moto...s/HONDA-c-264/

Anyway, I have had some additional thoughts on this whole thing and there is another aspect we are leaving out. I have seen threads on some forums regarding innovation and advancement of scooter design. We likely will not see this come from China. Realize when you are paying extra for a Japanese or European scooter part of that cost goes to their R&D department so they can continue to advance technology. Honda recently released some phenomenal scooters with wonderful mpg ratings and max speeds. All at reasonable cost (check out the PCX150) sorry couldn't resist posting this

read the review if you like

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/127/13...irst-Ride.aspx

Anyway it is a great little bike apparently with a number of advancements priced less than $3500 (well sure not much less but...) These guys continually are looking out for you. Making safer, faster, more efficient scooters. When you buy for them you aren't paying to line the pockets of already wealthy (and corrupt?) Chinese business men and officials but rather you are buying the future. You are buying advancement in technology that the Chinese might steal at some point in the future but never take the time and effort to do themselves.

I like the idea of being part of research a lot more than being a part of thievery, how about you?? Sure the "current" Chinese scoots are all somewhat legally acquired designs (though not always ethically marketed and sold) and yes they have actually "designed" one or 2 bodies themselves but for the most part, they are poor copies of very old technology. I guess it all comes down to what your conscience allows you to support... Everyone says it's about what they can afford but careful shopping really can get you a nice used Japanese bike for the same money as a Chinese clone.

[prodigit]

You're comparing a $800 TaoTao to a $2500 Honda?
Euhmm... No comparison!
The EVO150's are pretty ok, they have some hiccups, but aren't bad at all!
If you keep em in a shed or garage, well maintained they last a good and long time.
The stock parts seem to outlast 3k KM already on mine. Just having some headlights going on and off from time to time.

[scootnwinn]

I paid $1200 for my Honda I have no issues zero 1700 miles so far in the first month. 3000 miles and already the electrical is failing on yours. I was actually comparing all Chinese bikes to the rest of the world if you read it (you never do) and the fact that advancement of the machine is hampered by the Chinese. Read it I thought it was kind of interesting...

[spandi]

Nope SnW, I meant the Magneto housing (or flywheel) No.4 at $330.00

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmot...m2161#sch96371

(just type flywheel in the search box)

[scootnwinn]

You poor dude. How on earth did you trash the flywheel? I didn't know you had a Helix. You know they can be re-magnetized for less that $100 right?

[spandi]

Ok SnW I did not "Trash" the Flywheel. What I was doing was REPLACING the starter clutch (one of the Chinese "weak points" ) and found that NOTHING Impact drivers, Torches, ANYTHING would get those three little bolts to move. When I checked and found for roughly 50 bucks I could replace the whole thing I thought "Why am I putting myself through this?" BTW, it's a weird aspect of the Chinese that you have most of the parts made and finished nicely (and in no need of upgrade or replacement) While others are not, and I have said before welds and bearings (or bearing like, such as the CN250 starter clutch) are weak points. BTW, it should "warm the cockles of your heart" knowing that the replacement was HONDA OEM!

[thumper650]

I'd love a Yamaha Zuma, but I'm afraid it would get stolen. My Tomos Nitro is less desirable and cheaper to replace.

[rockie]

NOTICE TO ALL WHO WILL DOWN MY CHINESE SCOOTER. Get over what ever it is that's bothering you. I LOVE MY CHINESE SCOOTER!!!!!!

[skuttadawg]

I love my China scoots too as I do not mind tinkering and wrenching since I can not nor would I buy a new Honda scooter that I could buy a decent used 600cc cruiser for . I bought my Echarm since I thought it was better to pay more upfront and ride it instead buying the cheapest and have to invest in 3rd party parts just to have it reliable