Road and Track on the Darkside.

[Houndguy]

This may or may not apply to many of us, still it's an interesting article. What do you guys think about the "Darkside".

http://www.roadandtrack.com/voices/w...ir-motorcycles

[kz1000st]

You know what's annoying about all this? My 1979 KZ1000st got 17,000 miles out of its first rear tire. Truth. Every tire after that during the 1980's lasted at least 14,000. Front tires routinely lasted 35,000 miles or more. Then the Crotch Rocket era started. Now you're lucky to get 8,000 miles out of a rear motorcycle tire and 10,000 miles out of a front tire.

They boast how motorcycle tires are all "Race Track Ready" these days but who needs it? Give me mileage over race track traction. I don't slide a 1400cc, 165 horsepower Superbike on my way to work. The Honda Rebel is a 16 horse cruiser that tops out at a speed a KZ1400 can do in first gear. Plus I get to spend fifty or sixty dollars a pop for those joyful 8,000 miles and to go 30,000 miles costs me a mere-what?-$250 out of one wheel on my bike. Somebody's making money and it's not me.

[Houndguy]

I've been following the debate for a while. I'm not sure if it's even possible for me to go to the "Darkside" on my Xciting. I generally ride back and forth to work, a commute of about 80 miles (128.8 KM) round trip. This year has been a little odd in that I was actually off the bike for several months (doc's orders - damn my age).

Living in Florida is tough on the tires to begin with so getting more for my buck does appeal to me...however I'm still not sure if "going dark" is the right move safety wise.

[bandito2]

Originally Posted by Houndguy

I've been following the debate for a while. I'm not sure if it's even possible for me to go to the "Darkside" on my Xciting. I generally ride back and forth to work, a commute of about 80 miles (128.8 KM) round trip. This year has been a little odd in that I was actually off the bike for several months (doc's orders - damn my age).

Living in Florida is tough on the tires to begin with so getting more for my buck does appeal to me...however I'm still not sure if "going dark" is the right move safety wise.

I'll admit to being a car tire heretic. And I have been involved in car tires on scooters since early June of 2008. (my Honda Reflex 250 scooters among all the other Reflex riders that followed my lead and now use a car tire and my Silverwing 600ABS scooter... you might say I've learned a bit about it in that time) But I am curious to know if your safety concerns are because of mishaps, accidents, injuries or deaths related to car tire use on bikes or just on the say so of others? If something else, then what is that something else that concerns you?
(OK it was a trick question to ask about mishaps, accidents, injuries or deaths related to car tire use on bikes since one would be hard pressed to find some if any at all.) I only know of one and it was a guy trying to be too careful and dropped his bike going over a speed bump.... no kidding a speed bump.... really I think it was because he obviously lacked some basic riding skills. So even then, the car tire being involved was questionable in my view and I think he was just looking for something to blame it on other than his poor riding ability. BTW, the first car tire I ever used went 35,000 miles before I changed it to try a taller tire... it could have gone a couple thousand miles more easily.

Mostly I think those that oppose the idea either just repeat things they've heard or they are misinformed and don't understand that car tires use better rubber compounds and the tires are far stronger and can take far more abuse than a bike is even capable of inflicting. Yes there are differences in design, yet they still work and work well and safe enough as demonstrated by millions of collective miles without mishap.

In any event, a nickname I've heard Florida called is "Flatistan" I assure you that car tires can handle the curves amazingly well if that is a concern for you. For instance, a while back I rode with a few sport bikes (Ninja 1200, Aprilia RSV4 and a GSXR) and stayed right on their heels while leaving the rest of the motorcycles out of view from the mirrors. (We'd wait for them to catch up at turn points.... shamed a bunch of them with my scooter.... with a car tire besides.... it just blew them away about that) The point being you ride flat roads which the car tire is well suited for. They would be good for riders out in the western flat lands as well and would run cooler than motorcycle tires besides.

BTW, here is a link to a passenger vehicle (car) tire that is probably the best size (165/65R14) to fit your bike since it is closest in car tires to the stock scooter rear tire size for the Kymco Xciting500 (150/70-14). (and it has a 40,000 mile wear warranty..... what bike tire could even begin to compete with that? !!!) You >might< find that size, maybe even in a different brand elsewhere for less, but is is not a very common size. It really is not that much wider than the stock scooter tire, but what is also important is that it is closer to the diameter of the scooter tire than any other car tire.
http://www.tirebuyer.com/products/ti...ontDiameter=14

You do sound interested, so before you decide either way, you should learn as much as you think you need and then maybe a little more. Both sides... But be aware that while design differences are pointed out and theories posed, there has been NO actual scientific physical testing done to prove that car tire use on a bike is, and to what degree, safe OR dangerous.... NONE, ZIP, ZILCH, ZERO, NADA. (they claim liability issues as the reason for not testing)
Can't help myself... While the Darksiders ride merrily along without incident on their car tires in spite of all the speculation, theory, misinformation, fear mongering, knee jerk reactions etc. about it being not safe.

In all honesty, there is only one negative issue that I can think of with car tires. And that is a lack of sidewall support with a flat car tire. Motorcycles have a much stiffer sidewall and do a bit better in that respect.

IMO, the issue of the "squared shoulders" of a car tire has more to do with getting acclimated to the different "feel" and handling attributes than being a safety issue. If one can't or won't learn and adapt, then they probably shouldn't be riding motorbikes at all; car tires or not.
FWIW

[wheelbender6]

There is a guy that lives near me that mounted a car tire on the rear of his Honda Shadow cruiser. He said it corners as well as it did with a motorcycle tire on the rear.

[Houndguy]

Considering how I'm more of a day by day commuter, my concerns are mostly about cost. "Would it make sense for me to do this?"

As far as safety concerns go, I'll be the first to admit that I've not seen any hard data either way the supports the traditional motorcycle tire is safer or not as safe. There are also questions of warranty and such.

If I were to go the the Darkside, I'm sure there be a adjustment period. You have to determine how they handle under you! I don't corner that much but for me it's more speed (I commute mostly highway)...so braking distance and grip would be more of a concern to me.

Honestly...I don't know if I would.

[kz1000st]

I'd be happy if the tires went back to where they were 20 years ago. 35,000 from a front tire works for me, 10,000 doesn't.

[bandito2]

For your type of use, yes, absolutely it would make sense

OK, from a strictly financial standpoint, a car tire would be superior. They usually cost less than motorcycle/scooter tires. The one I found to fit the Xciting is a bit better quality tire and comes in a size that probably has less than average demand. And likely because of that lower demand, it carries a higher price to stock those kind of tires. But still, not bad at all considering what you get for the money.

And, consider the fact that it carries a 40,000 mile tread wear warranty. For my Reflex, scooter rear tires would last from 6 to 8 thousand miles. (YMMV) I used a cheap car tire on my Honda Reflex the first time and it was on for 35,000 miles and could have gone a few thousand more; and it had no such wear warranty. That represents a tire that can last from about 4 to 6 times as long as a scooter tire. Easy enough to do the math.

About braking: Most of the braking is done by the front wheel, so the choice for the front tire is more important there as far as braking is concerned. (bike tire only; no car tire should be used on the front) For rear braking, considering that the rubber compound of car tires is softer/stickier than bike tires, (even more so in cold and wet conditions) it seems an easy choice for the rear.

OH, and about warranties; I presume you are talking about the bike? If so, then you will have to read the fine print about making modifications since a car tire is certainly a non-standard item. Insurance wise, I've never heard nor seen about any claims not being honored because of using a car tire on a bike. I think this has something to do with car tires being DOT certified. Can't be ticketed for it either since Federal standards for motorcycles and passenger vehicles (cars) don't differentiate between the 2.... You just have to be using DOT certified tires. (I looked to find out and see) That is considering we are talking about this in the USA. We are free to do that here in the USA. Car tires are illegal to put on bikes that are used on public roads in GB, but I don't know about the rest of Europe.